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PAF F-5 Fleet; Status / Retirement
Topic Started: Jul 13 2004, 11:47 AM (12,198 Views)
Zero wing
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ZAFT Sepcial Forces Operative for SEA
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Ya i guess ur right about the S211 she made for light attack and training but then we must make use of what we have so what your suggestion can we try Su 30mk or F16 we can't buy this things since ur officials turn the F16 offerer down and i still not sure if we can buy from Russian but i don't see why not were a free country and yet we can't even buy without getting some repercussions
"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom."

“As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,”(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile)

“Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson)
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Lorenz_Mallari
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Frustrated Airsoft Player
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Posted Image
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 47 ft 4¾ in (14.45 m)
Wingspan: 26 ft 8 in (8.13 m)
Height: 13 ft 4½ in (4.08 m)
Wing area: 186 ft² (17.28 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 65A004.8 root, NACA 64A004.8 tip
Empty weight: 9,558 lb (4,349 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 24,664 lb (11,187 kg)
Powerplant: 2× General Electric J85-GE-21B turbojet
Dry thrust: 3,500 lbf (15.5 kN) each
Thrust with afterburner: 5,000 lbf (22.2 kN) each
Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0200
Drag area: 3.4 ft² (0.32 m²)
Aspect ratio: 3.86
Internal fuel: 677 US gal (2,563 L)
External fuel: 275 US gal (1,040 L) per tank in up to 3 tanks
Performance
Maximum speed: 917 knots (1,060 mph, 1,700 km/h)
Combat radius: 760 nm (870 mi, 1,405 km)
Ferry range: 2,010 nm (2,310 mi, 3,720 km)
Service ceiling: 51,800 ft (15,800 m)
Rate of climb: 34,400 ft/min (175 m/s)
Lift-to-drag ratio: 10.0
Armament
Guns: 2× 20 mm Pontiac M39A2 cannon, 280 rounds/gun
Missiles:

Total of up to 7,000lb (3,200 kg) of ordnance.
AIM-7 Sparrow
AIM-9 Sidewinder
AGM-65 Maverick
AIM-120 AMRAAM
Bombs:

M129 Leaflet bomb
500 lb (225 kg) Mk82
2,000 lb (900 kg) Mk84
CBU-24/49/52/58 cluster munitions
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page mcney
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Zero wing
Aug 6 2007, 03:18 PM
Ya i guess ur right about the S211 she made for light attack and training but then we must make use of what we have so what your suggestion can we try Su 30mk or F16 we can't buy this things since ur officials turn the F16 offerer down and i still not sure if we can buy from Russian but i don't see why not were a free country and yet we can't even buy without getting some repercussions

THEN THE PAF SHOULD BUY THE KFIRs FROM ISRAEL (AS A STOP GAP WHILE THE GOV'T WOULD FIND THE FUNDS FOR AN MRF SQUADRON). THEY SHOULD CONSIDER THIS...
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

KFir is an old design. Para ka lang din bumili ng F5.

If it's just for stop-gap, then better get the T50 Eagle instead.

The benefit in the longer term is worth the investment.
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" Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution "


" People don't care what we know until they know we care. "


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Marschall
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Old design or not: if it's cheaper and it flies, hell why not take it? At least our pilots can fly. And the Kfir has been a good fighter, I'm sure it can also be used for COIN purposes or attacking illegal vessels in our waters.

We are not a nation that is in the position to be picky...
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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spearhead
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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Marschall
Sep 10 2007, 11:30 PM
Old design or not: if it's cheaper and it flies, hell why not take it? At least our pilots can fly. And the Kfir has been a good fighter, I'm sure it can also be used for COIN purposes or attacking illegal vessels in our waters.

We are not a nation that is in the position to be picky...

But they're too old. Tapos pag bumili tayo nun, anong gagawin natin doon after 15 more years?

I agree with buying some modified korean made T-50, atleast its quite modern and new.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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Marschall
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spearhead
Sep 11 2007, 08:52 AM
Marschall
Sep 10 2007, 11:30 PM
Old design or not: if it's cheaper and it flies, hell why not take it? At least our pilots can fly. And the Kfir has been a good fighter, I'm sure it can also be used for COIN purposes or attacking illegal vessels in our waters.

We are not a nation that is in the position to be picky...

But they're too old. Tapos pag bumili tayo nun, anong gagawin natin doon after 15 more years?

I agree with buying some modified korean made T-50, atleast its quite modern and new.

We ought to look for fighters we can afford. Old ones can also be modified at reasonable prices.
If age is the only matter, we would have already scrapped the entire navy as well...
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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edwin
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Marschall
Sep 10 2007, 11:30 PM
Old design or not: if it's cheaper and it flies, hell why not take it? At least our pilots can fly. And the Kfir has been a good fighter, I'm sure it can also be used for COIN purposes or attacking illegal vessels in our waters.

We are not a nation that is in the position to be picky...

PAF must aim a potent MRF that is affordable not only from the point of cheaply acquring it,
but also consider the area of maintenance expenses, spare parts supply, cost per flying hour, fuel supply including the salary of Technician and Pilots.

Expenses of An MRF/Jet fighter does not stop the moment you purchase it.

It will require a stable funds for PAF to support the whole structure that will keep a Jet Fighter in top condition all the time and serve its purpose for many years to come.

Cheers :armycheers:


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It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow.
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

Marschall
Sep 10 2007, 11:30 PM
Old design or not: if it's cheaper and it flies, hell why not take it? At least our pilots can fly. And the Kfir has been a good fighter, I'm sure it can also be used for COIN purposes or attacking illegal vessels in our waters.

We are not a nation that is in the position to be picky...

These KFirs are very old. Maintenance is expected to be costly as well.

If it's for stop-gap and we cant get the T50 still, i would opt for the AS211 or even ask the Augusta to put in a better guidance system and radar so we can arm it with a Sidewinder, Maverick or even an AMRAAM.

When the MRF like the JAS39 comes, the AS211 or "FS211" perhaps can then be reaasisgned as a jet trainer and purely a strike aircarft for the 15th Strike Wing.

We can even retain some to take the support or backup role for the lead fighter squadron.

This setup would give our investment the right worth.
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" Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution "


" People don't care what we know until they know we care. "


getflipzi@yahoo.com
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akimima
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Here's another stop-gap solution until the AFP can afford to buy those expensive MRF's:


The Alpha Jet

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The Dassault-Breguet-Dornier Alpha Jet is a twin seat subsonic fighter bomber that due to its conception and versatile characteristics is particularly suitable for supporting air offensive operations, surface forces operations as well as for the advanced training on bomber fighters and operational conversion training, with the capability of using different weapon configurations. Its equipment allows it to obtain great efficiency when planning and executing missions. The Head Up Display (HUD) saves the pilot from looking down into the cockpit to read the instruments, by superimposing data on a clear plate mounted at the pilot's eye level. The navigation and fire control computers are rather precise and permit a great flexibility on attack missions. The use of "AFA" computer makes it simpler, quicker and more efficient the planning of a mission.

The Alpha Jet 2 is a development of the training aircraft optimized for ground attack. It has an integrated weapon system (laser range finder, inertial navigation unit, Head-Up Display) allowing to fulfill either weapon system training missions or ground attack missions with a great accuracy. The Alpha Jet ATS (Advanced Training System) , fitted in particular with state-of-the-art controls and displays (glass cockpit), will allow to train the pilot for the use of navigation/attack systems of the latest and future fighters aircraft.


Posted Image


Specifications:
General characteristics
Crew: 1-2
Length: 13.23 m (43 ft 4.9 in)
Wingspan: 9.11 m (29 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.19 m (13 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 17.5 m² (188 ft²)
Empty weight: 3,515 kg (7,750 lb)
Loaded weight: 5,000 kg (11,000 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 8,000 kg (18,000 lb)
Powerplant: 2× SNECMA/Turboméca Larzac 04-C6 turbofans, 13.2 kN (3,000 lbf) each
Performance
Maximum speed: 994 km/h (537 knots, 621 mph)
Range: 2,780 km (1,500 nm, 1,740 mi)
Service ceiling: 13,700 m (50,000 ft)
Armament
Guns: 1× 27 mm (1.06 in) Mauser BK-27 cannon
Other: Up to 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) external stores on five hardpoints, including:
Bombs:
Hunting BL755 cluster bomb units
Missiles:
AGM-65 Maverick
AIM-9 Sidewinder
Matra Magic II


This jet is faster the the S211 and carries more armaments. Its combat range is also something to look at if the AFP is planning to use this for long range airstrikes.

It probably cheaper than the price tag of the Korean T50 which is pegged at $22 Mil per plane, since the latter was first produced in 1978..."younger" as compared to the retired F5's and Kfirs. And since this is just a stop gap solution and not a permanent, I'd say the AFP should give this warbird a try.

"Our arrows will blot out the sun!" quoted by the invading Persian commander. "Then we will fight in the shade!" quote from 300 Spartans.
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