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Old new again; second-hand bargains
Topic Started: Aug 3 2005, 06:31 AM (8,063 Views)
israeli
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possible: i just listed down those possible options for the Navy so that we can have a better idea of which vessel(s) among those listed should get the attention of Navy planners. the Navy planners can always eliminate those that did not fit in to their specifications. :armywink:

as for the Knox class frigates, yes, they were retired from service by the Greeks and Turks for being so maintenance intensive. the Thais were also experiencing the same problem as the Greeks and the Turks. as for the Taiwanese, they cannot retire the Knoxes from service for the simple reason that there are still looking for possible replacements for these ships so for the mean time, they opted to upgrade the Knox class with new weapons. the Egyptians and the Mexicans, the other operators of the Knox class frigates, do not report problems with their ships (the Mexicans even bought a fourth Knox class frigate from the US Navy, the ex-USS Whipple).

the Perry class frigates will be an overkill for the Philippine Navy to operate given the HIGH OPERATIONS COST of these two vessels, although the PN will surely "earn respect" from other navies in the region if the PN is to possess two of the most powerful guided-missile frigates in the world.

i agree with you suggesting the Flyvefisken class multi-role patrol boats, the Aviso (A-69) class corvettes and the Descubierta class light frigates for the PN. i hope that the PN will seriously consider these warships, especially the Flyvefiskens. :fire:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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edwin
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israeli
Aug 17 2005, 04:15 PM
possible: i just listed down those possible options for the Navy so that we can have a better idea of which vessel(s) among those listed should get the attention of Navy planners. the Navy planners can always eliminate those that did not fit in to their specifications. :armywink:


Israeli,
Very informative picture. :specool: How about the HAMILTON CLASS??.

Reading the thread about LITTORAL ENVIRONMENT by Possible, I think the Navy should pursue those ships that are EXTREMELY CAPABLE in PROTECTING our Littoral region, since our internal waters are the most vulnerable in terms of Irregular Coastal Operations like smugglers, piracy, foreign encroachment and terrorist.

Navy planners may choose a compromise Naval Platform that can perform an effective LITTORAL Naval Combat Ships and at the same time can also perform External Defense Mission.

Do you have such thing in mind or which one in your POSTED PICTURE that best suit my question. Thanks Bro. Peace to all.. :armycheers:
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It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and reality of tomorrow.
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israeli
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if the PN needs near coast patrol vessels, the South Korean PKMs and most of the FACs that i have listed down will qualify but for blue water duties, i am recommending the Descubierta class frigates and the Aviso (A-69) class corvettes. :thumb:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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possible
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israeli
Aug 17 2005, 04:15 PM
possible: i just listed down those possible options for the Navy so that we can have a better idea of which vessel(s) among those listed should get the attention of Navy planners. the Navy planners can always eliminate those that did not fit in to their specifications. :armywink:

as for the Knox class frigates, yes, they were retired from service by the Greeks and Turks for being so maintenance intensive. the Thais were also experiencing the same problem as the Greeks and the Turks. as for the Taiwanese, they cannot retire the Knoxes from service for the simple reason that there are still looking for possible replacements for these ships so for the mean time, they opted to upgrade the Knox class with new weapons. the Egyptians and the Mexicans, the other operators of the Knox class frigates, do not report problems with their ships (the Mexicans even bought a fourth Knox class frigate from the US Navy, the ex-USS Whipple).

the Perry class frigates will be an overkill for the Philippine Navy to operate given the HIGH OPERATIONS COST of these two vessels, although the PN will surely "earn respect" from other navies in the region if the PN is to possess two of the most powerful guided-missile frigates in the world.

i agree with you suggesting the Flyvefisken class multi-role patrol boats, the Aviso (A-69) class corvettes and the Descubierta class light frigates for the PN. i hope that the PN will seriously consider these warships, especially the Flyvefiskens. :fire:

israeli: you forget the second condition demanded for posting suggestions on this thread, my friend: "give arguments". not enough that you just give us an equipment list, justify your suggestions especially if someone asks questions: for the KNOX-class, remember that Egypt is the 2nd largest recipient of American military aid after Israel while Mexico is mere minutes away from the American border, so neither would have problems obtaining either funding or spares support for an otherwise consistently troublesome platform, perhaps that explains why they alone have failed to complain about the KNOX-class as you have said. PERRY-class, no need to shout out "HIGH OPERATIONAL COST" since that is more surely gleaned from actual operating cost figures which have been posted already, though I always turn a skeptical eye to the actual utility of so-called "prestige" platforms.


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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possible
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another possible candidate

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LA FAYETTE-CLASS

don't laugh. the French Navy is currently in the process of ordering no less than 17 of the latest generation FREMM frigates. with so many new warships coming online - and of course the need to pay for them - it is highly-possible that France will have to dispose of its older, less-capable vessels. the LA FAYETTE-class is one of those, while it may look like one of the most advanced warships in the world, its beauty is actually only skin deep: no sonar, diesel power only, only short-range SAMs for air defense. strictly speaking, it is not a sophisticated therefore expensive-to-run warship at all, it is equipped for economy and endurance which suits smaller navies - however, that does not mean it cannot be developed into a dedicated combat platform later, I have been aboard these vessels in several of their international port visits and they definitely have the space needed for further improvement. just a matter of being ready when they do become available. another suitable French candidate might be the FLOREAL-CLASS.

again, given these options, I don't believe we need newbuild combat vessels at all. build amphibious transports and patrol vessels locally as so many are suggesting, but big-ticket items, get oldie but goodie when possible.


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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israeli
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possible: France will not give up its fleet of La Fayette class and Floreal class frigates yet.

the FREMM class frigates are slated to replace the Suffren class and Tourville class destroyers, older George Leygues class frigates and the Aviso (A-69) class corvettes. however, the FREMM class frigates will enter French Navy service not in the near future so we will still see some of the vessels that i have mentioned (except maybe for the Aviso class) spending much longer time in service.

if there's one particular class of vessels that i really wished the Philippine Navy was able to acquire, those would be the two Karel Doorman ("M) class multi-purpose frigates that were recently decommissioned from Dutch Navy service and sold to Chile. the Karel Doormans were true multi-role vessels, not as bulky as their American and British counterparts and highly capable vessels.

armed with eight Harpoon SSMs, 16 vertical launch Sea Sparrow SAMs, one 76 mm OTO Melara main gun, one 30 mm Goalkeeper CIWS, two Oerlikon 20mm light cannons and four torpedo tubes for ASW torpedoes, those Karel Doormans could have been worthy replacements to the BRP Rajah Humabon and the two Auk class corvettes. :headbang:


photos of Karel Doorman class frigates:

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"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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possible
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israeli
Aug 25 2005, 11:41 PM
possible: France will not give up its fleet of La Fayette class and Floreal class frigates yet.

of course. that's why I advocate "being ready when they do become available". as for the possibility that only the older French units will be retired I have learned not to trust whatever has been initially "slated" when the cost of paying for defense acquisitions is involved.

the M-CLASS, good suggestion, but no point banging one's head over what can no longer be changed

Quote:
 
29-3-2004: Sale of Dutch frigates to Chile finalised

In the presence of State Secretary for Defence Cees van der Knaap and the Chilean Minister of Defence, Michelle Bachelet Jeria, a contract was signed on 27 March 2004 finalising the sale of two M-class and two L-class frigates to the Chilean navy to the amount of € 290 million. Van der Knaap expressed his satisfaction that "the vessels had found such worthy new owners". Minister Bachelet Jeria stated that the initial intention to procure new frigates had been abandoned on account of the high costs involved. "We decided to buy the Dutch vessels, because not only were they in excellent condition, they were also new".       

http://www.mindef.nl

March, 2004, last year, I think everybody was concerned with the elections, no way such large amounts would be released for other purposes - funny, they're still concerned with the elections even now :drunk:

but who knows, the Dutch might yet sell their remaining M-CLASS...again, we need only be ready...


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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israeli
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possible: it's really a dread that we missed all the opportunities given to us. it will be a LONG time before the Philippine Navy buys even a small missile boat. :headbang:

about the M class, BELGIUM, which recently gave up its Wielingen class frigates, is setting its sights for either newly-built or second-hand M class frigates. i'm only wondering if the Philippines can have the opportunity to get those M class frigates when they become available but for sure, the PN should try courting France for the Aviso class corvettes. :drunk:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

Those Dutch ships were really impressive, considerinf that these are still in "excellent condition and new still" according to the report.

Anyway, if Chile was offered the deal, can we give the Dutch a better price offer than the Chilean govt?

Let's hope our govt, with Sec. Cruz at the helm of the DND, will be able to get us better ships .... AND WE CAN START DECOMMISIONING THOSE WW2 SHIPS.

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" People don't care what we know until they know we care. "


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saver111
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The Dutch you say? As in The Netherlands?

Di kaya maharang ni Joma and Company yan? :drunk:
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Justice for Daniel Lorenz Jacinto

HELP END PIRACY NOW!:
http://www.itfseafarers.org/petition.cfm
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