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Cali-Pinto; From Jane's Defence Weekly 2 Nov 1985
Topic Started: Jun 4 2005, 06:35 PM (4,616 Views)
City Hunter
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Sir el commandante, I recall na-bring up rin sa amin yan when freshman pa kami. Kung bakit aeronautics at hindi aerospace ginamit sa name at course sa school. Yun aeronautics kasi deals with everything that one needs when flying. Yun aerospace ay about the atmosphere or yun kalawakan lang. I checked out yun definition and aeronatics is about the art and science of flight. Tapos halos same rin sa na-recall ko naman sa aerospace - just about the atmosphere and its environs.

As for its engineering difference, medyo blank pa rin ako as of now. Ang masabi ko lang ay yun aeronautical engineering parang pinagsama lahat ng mga other courses into one. Bale you know much about everything there is in designing, making, flying and maintaining aircrafts. Wala nga lang flying lessons sa pagkakaalam ko (kasi lokbu yun Tutubi X1 sa school).

As for any aviation oriented na local school no idea rin me. Ang alam ko lang na mahusay talaga na local school in that field ay yun sa may Villamor. I forgot the name na pero I recall they changed it a bit if I'm right. Parang state-run school pero mahusay.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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israeli
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comrade Cityhunter, i have no idea about the status of the Cali Pinto and those F-5Bs but i am trying to match the PAF F-5B serial numbers posted in Manokski's website to the PAF page in scramble.nl although the latter is not that accurate.

so far, this is the result of the "matching" that i did:

PAF F-5B S/N 10589 (last noted January 1997): no notes
PAF F-5B S/N 13379 (last noted January 1997): no notes
PAF F-5B S/N 13380 (last noted January 2003): stored in Clark
PAF F-5B S/N 40780 (last noted January 2003): stored in Clark


those are the only F-5B serials listed in Manokski's website.
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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City Hunter
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Thanks for the info, Sir israeli. I'm trying to factor these too on the things we might've achieved if it was continued. As for the F-5B, it may have served to increase our pilot pool up to reservist level if it was maintained. And it may even have served as airborne command and control or even as electronic warfare platform with a little more investment. For now, I'm just curious what happened to these and if they could still be fixed even if just as teaching aids.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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israeli
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^ you're absolutely right, sir cityhunter.

those F-5Bs could have served well as LIFTs if they are only well maintained.

as for the Cali Pinto, if there is a surviving prototype of the aircraft (although i doubt there is one left), then we might just have to "modernize" it in such a way that the Cali Pinto will be fitted with modern avionics and weapons for it to become at par with its modern counterparts such as the EMB-314 Super Tucano, T-35 Turbo Pillan, Pilatus PC-9, KT-1 Woongbee and T-6A Texan II.

however, i have worries that the Cali Pinto project might be "shut down" by the Americans just like what they did to the Israeli Lavi multi-role fighter project (the design of which was handed over to the Chinese by the Israelis and became the basis for the PLAAF J-10 multi-role fighter). the Americans "hate" having a competition with their Raytheon T-6A Texan II. :nono:


Opus' page on the Defiant and Hummingbird projects

also, maybe this COA report on PADC might help. :armywink:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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City Hunter
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Sir israeli, I've been curious too as to the reason why the Cali/Super Pinto and Defiant got shelved. The Hummingbird I could understand though. I'm hoping I could get Sen. Pimentel or others that are "concerned" about these subjects to take a deeper look. It could be an issue too for us if we get these started (the F20/L-159 or such with tech and production transfer) or restarted kasi.

BTW, is Cong. Biazon the one leading the House Committee for defense matters? I can't find the related committee kasi on the web (or might've missed it). Will definitely make a scheduled visit there too (probably early next year) after a sked to the Senate.
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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jammerjamesky
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Quote:
 


however, i have worries that the Cali Pinto project might be "shut down" by the Americans just like what they did to the Israeli Lavi multi-role fighter project (the design of which was handed over to the Chinese by the Israelis and became the basis for the PLAAF J-10 multi-role fighter). the Americans "hate" having a competition with their Raytheon T-6A Texan II.



How can they shot down the Cali Pinto project if they themselves find the project obsolete right now.It never materalized in their arena so that is why Pinto brought it here and sell all the rights and blue prints to PAF. Pinto and PAF has all the rights, never the US government. He is independent in the development of the program after the US never adopted his program. It was given also a go signal when pinto wanted to sell the blue prints. How can Pinto involve such deals if he was not cleared in the US? They can never prosecute aslo the company because it was long gone and also the owner.

All we can ask right now is the help of the Spanish Goverment also to joint refinance the project.The spansih government can help us in the build up of this craft.
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israeli
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jammerjamesky: but then, the Americans can always exert pressure on the Philippines into the latter discontinuing the development and production of the Cali Pinto. the Cali Pinto may be perceived as an obsolete aircraft but once it is fitted with modern weapons and avionics, it could rival modern planes of the same genre such as the Brazilian EMB-314 Super Tucano, Chilean T-35 Pillan, Swiss PC-9, Korean KT-1 Woongbee and AMERICAN T-6A Texan II.

i believe that the revival of the Cali Pinto and Defiant programs and the license-production and redevelopment of the L-159A/B Alca could jumpstart the development of our country's aerospace industry. if that will happen, we will be able to keep most of those dollars circulating within the Philippine economy, provide jobs for thousands of Filipinos seeking livelihood and give way for Filipino aerospace designers to exhibit their craft by designing civil and military aircraft that are built in the Philippines and can be exported to target foreign markets. :thumb:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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flipzi
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R-A-T-S

Why not revive the Cali Pinto project?

I believe we overlooked this one.

This could be the opportunity and the gateway that we are looking for.
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jammerjamesky
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:agree: To you guys

Let the Cali Pinto Program have a chance to take off. I think we can provide our fellow poor nations a much cheaper price than the existing subsonic aircraft in the market.

This action cuold generate a lot of savings and success stories to our PAF institution.
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City Hunter
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Sending a copy of the scanned news to Sen. Pimentel. We need both Cali and Gripen for our PAF. Not to mention a resurrection for the Defiant project and licensed production for Hummingbird (since its a copy of a German design).
Command is about authority, about appointment to a position. Effective leadership is different. It must be learned and practiced in order for it to rise to the level of art. You must love those you lead before you can be an effective leader. You can certainly command without that sense of commitment but you cannot lead without it; and without leadership, command is a hollow experience. .. a vacuum often filled with mistrust and ignorance.

Gen. Eric K. Shinseki
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