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Sea Wolves; Orbat Updates re Sea Wolves
Topic Started: May 24 2005, 02:00 PM (10,047 Views)
spiderweb6969
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spiderweb6969
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possible
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awesome. :bow:


War. What is it good for?--James Brown

What's love got to do with it?--Tina Turner

Only the intelligent are brave.
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spiderweb6969
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israeli
May 24 2005, 03:23 PM
FINALLY!!! :fire:

the Philippine Navy suddenly had interest in acquiring those soon-to-be surplus Sea Wolf class FACs of the Singaporean Navy. i hope that our comrade from Singapore spiderweb could shed light on the specs of the Sea Wolves and their track record in Singaporean Navy service...

but the Sea Wolves will NOT be available until the arrival of all the Formidable class frigates. if the PN wants to have FACs now, then it should consider the surplus South African Jan Smuts/Warrior/Minister (Saar 4) class, German Tiger class, Greek Combattante II class and Israeli Saar 4 class FACs. :armywink:


Specs of the Singaporean Sea Wolf class FAC:

Displacement: 254 tons
Dimensions: 44.9 x 7 x 2.3 meters (147.3 x 23 x 7.5 feet)
Propulsion: 4 MTU 16V 538 TB92 diesels, 13460 hp, 4 shafts, 38 knots
Crew: 40
Armament: 4 Harpoon SSM (2 twin), 2 Gabriel SAMs, Mistral SAMs, 1 Bofors 57mm/70, 1 Bofors 40mm/70

The Bofors 40mm/70 at the aft is already been replaced with Mistral (twin launcher) SAM, the photo i posted shows the Sea Wolf Class from the 1970's to year 2005 (manoks orbat). The changes is so extensive that you can see how it transformed from the one with only guns to SSM (1st with Gabriel, later Harpoon is added) and Mistral SAM.
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gary1910
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RSN's MGB at it's present configuration is considered to be most potent ship for it's size.

Mistral for anti-aircraft as well as anti-missile roles.That was installed due to GW1 where Iraqi Navy was totally destroyed by all kind of missiles.

Gabriel SSM (25km)for short range surface engagement especially in litorial waters

Harpoon SSM with active radar guidance for long range OTH (140km)open sea engagement.

Lastly 57mm gun for limited anti surface & air engagement.

Even it was constantly upgraded and still very potent, RSN still need to upgrade with better ships with respect to the limited manpower, thus retirement of this class.

I believe at it's present form , many navies will certainly don't mind having them.
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edwin
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israeli
May 25 2005, 12:09 AM


if we are to buy the Singaporean Sea Wolf class FACs, BUY THE SHIPS ALONG WITH THE ANTI-SHIP AND AIR DEFENSE MISSILES THAT COME WITH THEM. :fire:

:agree:

Better for the PN to continue acquiring those Patrol Killer Boats or Sea dolphin Class from Korea, rather than buying Sea Wolf Class minus its armaments. Peace to all.
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Manokski
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possible
May 25 2005, 03:34 PM
Manokski
May 25 2005, 02:51 PM
Actually, I think you have it the other way around, the Bofors 40mm installed on the SQ boats is the newer pattern - 40mm/70 cal.  These are much newer.  PN versions, Mk1 & 3 are actually WW2 guns taken from old ships and a 40mm/60 caliber (shorter length tubes basically).

The 57mm Bofors is the same as that used by the Canadians and is the same type chosen by the USCG to arm its new ships.  This has never been in PN service.

i'm sorry but you're mistaken, sir. the gun on the foredeck of the SEA WOLF is clearly the original Mk1 version of the Bofors SAK 57mm DPG. the latest Mk3 version is easily identified by its stealth cupola, and was the one selected by the USN and the USCG, where it will be known as the Mk110. Canada only employs the Mk2. as for the 'classic' Bofors, i was only talking about the main gun.

I guess we are both right but I guess that I did not explain myself properly. What I meant was the 57mm chosen by the coast guard & USN is a newer development of this gun, but it is basically the same gun incorporating improvements in stealthiness and operability.

That said, thanks for the correction.
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israeli
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Manokski: is there any official word from the Philippine Navy regarding the intention of getting the Sea Wolf class FACs from Singapore? :?:


again, if we are to buy those Sea Wolf, BUY THE SHIPS ALONG WITH THE MISSILES! :fire: :fire: :fire:
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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Manokski
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israeli
May 26 2005, 09:05 AM
Manokski: is there any official word from the Philippine Navy regarding the intention of getting the Sea Wolf class FACs from Singapore? :?:


again, if we are to buy those Sea Wolf, BUY THE SHIPS ALONG WITH THE MISSILES! :fire: :fire: :fire:

All I can say is that the news was given by an official source. PN officials including the Chief of Naval Staff and officials from the Modernization Office actually inspected some boats. How official do you want or can you get? That said, it is a negotiation. It is up to Singapore to sell it or transfer it to us and of course, the price has to be right.

As for the missiles, SQ is using the harpoons elsewhere and they cannot transfer the missiles without US approval (third party sale is prohibited). As for the Gabriels, rumor has it they are time expired.

IMHO, these boats are much much better than the Freemantles. For one thing the SQ boats are true Fast Attack Craft. The Freemantles are large patrol boats. Big difference. The SQ boats are only in the middle of their expected lifespans. The Freemantles are at the end. The SQ Navy is decommisioning them not because they are old or hard to maintain but because they need to free up the manpower for their new Frigates. The RAN is decommisioning the Freemantles because they are old and increasingly hard to maintain.

Further, the SQ boats leave a lot of room for the PN to improve on - when funds are available they can be re-armed with missiles very easily, drag and drop to use computer terms. Pound for pound the SQ boats are more heavily armed than the Freemantles even if you consider gun armament alone. Speaking of guns, the Freemantles carry modernized 40mm/L60 - basically modernized WW2 guns. The SQ boats gun armament is much more modern.
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datu
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What the Aussies say about the Fremantles.

Quote:
 
Patrol Boat Force

Provides a capability for patrol boat operations comprising fifteen Fremantle-class patrol boats.

Achieved. Transition from the Fremantle-class patrol boats to the Armidale-class patrol boats will take place between 2004-05 and 2007-08. The number of replacement patrol boats has not yet been determined and will be dependent upon finalisation of contractual arrangements. The Fremantle-class patrol boat force has exceeded its designed life-of-type by in excess of six years. There is an increasing risk that hull and system related defects will continue to impact on the provision of Fremantle-class patrol boat capability throughout the remainder of the class life.
The patrol boat force contributes to the civil surveillance program, which is managed by Coastwatch. The force also contributes to the protection of Australia's sovereignty, through the provision of a patrol, response and surveillance capability in Australia's maritime approaches. Patrol boats contribute to regional engagement and security through the conduct of operations, port visits and exercises with regional nations. Contributions in these areas were met in 2002-03.
Performance Targets  Performance
Quality:
Achieve levels of preparedness directed by the Chief of the Defence Force for military response options with a warning time of less than 12 months.  Achieved. Levels were met in accordance with current preparedness directives.
Achieve a level of training that maintains core skills and professional standards across all warfare areas.  Achieved. Operational units within the patrol boat force achieved a level of training that maintained core skills and professional standards.
Quantity:
15 patrol boats - 2,709 FMC days  15 patrol boats - 2,513 FMC days (93 per cent). A total of 32 weeks of unscheduled maintenance activity was incurred from November 2002 to June 2003. This was due to hull and/or system related defects in HMA Ships Cessnock, Gawler, Dubbo, Geelong, Launceston, Geraldton, Bunbury, Fremantle and Warrnambool.


http://www.defence.gov.au/budget/02-03/dar...forcestruct.htm


"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
---The Big Lebowski
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