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Women sailors
Topic Started: Mar 29 2005, 07:24 PM (2,662 Views)
Pendejo
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If indeed the president awarded the Medal of Valor for non-combat accomplishments then this commander-in-chief needs to go to boot camp. As for me, I try not to believe everything I read in the newspapers. If everything reporters wrote was true then indeed there was a Cadillac Gauge V-150 strafing and rocketing Camp Aguinaldo during the 1989 coup.

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Ventisei26
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Pendejo
Apr 11 2005, 02:35 PM
If indeed the president awarded the Medal of Valor for non-combat accomplishments then this commander-in-chief needs to go to boot camp.

What is wrong about awarding the Medal of Valor to non-combatant? The United States have done this to Dr. Mary E. Walker, a civilian surgeon during the U.S. Civil War, who received the Congressional Medal of Honor. She was not a combatant, but contract doctor for the U.S. Army. She was imprisoned and accused by the Confederate for being a Union spy. Also to Charles Lindbergh, he was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, for just being the first man to "First solo transatlantic flight." With this fate, I believe he also received the German Medal of Honor from Adoft Hitler.

And speaking of Charles Lindbergh, he was the one who convinced President Marcos to set up an organization (Philippine Eagle Foundation?) so that the Philippine Eagle would not become extinct.
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Pendejo
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Well if indeed the Medal of Valor was awarded. That's that. What can we do? Question it? Controversy could have been avoided and Mary Grace Baloyo's honor kept sacred if the president stops playing politics.

According to my esteemed professor Colonel Juny P. La Putt: "The Medal of Valor is the highest military award given by the Armed Forces of the Philippines. It is the equivalent to the Congressional Medal of Honor of the United States of America. This award is given by direction of the Philippine President, in pursuance to paragraph 1-6a, Section II, Chapter 1, Armed Forces of the Philippines Regulations G131-053, General Headquarters, Armed forces of the Philippines, Camp General Emilio Aguinaldo, Quezon City, dated 1 July 1986."

Sure, Mary Walker received the medal, then controversies on her award emerged...it was in fact rescinded and later reinstated.

"Dr. Mary E. Walker, M.D., a Civil War physician, was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor in 1865. Dr. Walker's Medal of Honor was rescinded in 1917, along with some 900 others. Some believed her medal was rescinded because of her involvement as a suffragette. Others discredit that opinion as 909 other medals rescinded were awarded to men. The stated reason was to ". . . increase the prestige of the grant. For whatever reason she refused to return the Medal of Honor and wore it until her death in 1919. Fifty-eight years later, the U.S. Congress posthumously reinstated her medal, and it was restored by President Carter on June 10, 1977."
http://www.undelete.org/military/mil3walker.html

Here's something from issues on the US medal of honor.
http://www.mishalov.com/Medal_Honor_History_Issues.html

"As a general rule, the Medal of Honor can be earned--by a deed of personal bravery or self-sacrifice above and beyond the call of duty--only while a person is a members of the American Armed Forces in actual combat with an enemy of the Nation. This was the case, for example, during World Wars I and II and the Korean conflict. However, the Navy Medal of Honor could be and has been on several occasions, awarded to noncombatants."

Exceptional cases, yes. Very few. In fact, Congress had to award a "special" medal of honor for Charles Yeager for performing a feat equaling Lindbergh's achievement when Yeager broke the sound barrier. Yeager's "special" is not even carried in the roster of Medal of Honor winners.

"On a few, rare occasions, the Congress of the United States has awarded special Medals of Honor for individual exploits taking place in peacetime. Such a Medal of Honor was awarded Capt. Charles A. Lindbergh for his "heroic courage and skill as a navigator, at the risk of his life, for his nonstop flight in his airplane from New York to Paris, France, 20-21 May 1927." In peace or war, this medal is the highest decoration which can be given in any of the Armed Forces--Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or Coast Guard. "

Sadly, Mary Grace died. She was without doubt a courageous and gallant combat pilot but questions have been raised on the authenticity of the air force story that "she skillfully manuevered her aircraft to avoid hitting a residential area." Some people were even saying this was a publicity stunt to make the most out of a bad situation, others say there was an error in judgement when she froze instead of ejecting. I am not saying this is true and I am not one to trample over the grave of a dead person but when politics steps in such as GMA's penchant for overuling established procedure in establishing basis for an award, especially the Medal of Valor, we should be more circumspect lest the value and prestige of the medal is demeaned, worse, the honor and prestige of the recipient is damaged. And all because the little woman of a commander-in-chief was in such a hurry to get pogi points at the expense of Mary Grace's honor.

There was no hurry to award the Medal of Valor to Mary Grace. An interim award was already in the works but then GMA felt it made good political copy for her to do otherwise. It was all politics to me.

Such was the case of Noel Buan's Medal of Valor. I have no doubt that Noel deserved the Medal of Valor but had the president followed procedure then there would have been no questions asked, and Noel's prestige would not have been dragged through the muck because of one little kookie of a commander-in-chief who thinks these things are taken lightly and easily done.

Even the US takes it's time, even years before the Medal of Honor is presented. They take pain to authenticate, research, document and determine eligibility for the award. If you ever watched "Courage Under Fire" where Danzel Washington plays the army colonel tasked with documenting and determining eligibility for Meg Ryan's award of the Medal of Honor.

My father caused the surrender of 400 MNLF rebels in the hinterlands of Sulu during the early 70s, in the field, without firing a shot. Sowescom (forerunner of Southcom) recommended a Distinguished Conduct Star but GHQ ruled he was not eligible for a DCS since his unit was not actually engaged in combat at the time (meaning explosions and gunfire and people dying). He got the Distinguished Service Star instead. Note it took several years for that award to be approved. In the interim, my old man received a Military Merit Medal sans bronze spearhead device while eligiblity and authority for award of the higher decoration was made. I agree and respect that decision.

I do not have a copy of the criteria but I am aware that the Medal of Valor, as established by President Quezon is the highest award that may be given to a Filipino soldier in actions involving actual conflict with an armed enemy by distinguishing oneself conspicuously by gallantry and at risk of life beyond the call of duty.

What's wrong? Holy guacomole, there are combat awards such as the Distinguished Conduct Star and the Gold Cross, both lower in precedence than the Medal of Valor and all of a sudden we downgrade the Medal of Valor as eligible for non-combat?

This woman commander-in-chief needs a better understanding of the military culture. She has made so many flawed decisions and pronouncements arising from her whims, capriciousness and political maneuvering. To name one, look what kind of disaster her "revolving door policy" on selection of AFP chief of staff spewed the AFP Comptroller Mess.

She made a speech on AFP Day and made a remark ..."let me remind you that I was responsible for increasing your salaries." By gulay, if you know how soldiers think you would not even utter such bullshit.

Following the Oakwood incident, did she relieve a single senior commander? No, she did not. Not a single general. Did she relieve Angie Reyes? No. She even made him SND.

The Carlos Garcia scandal happening under the watch of Narsing Abaya. She could have let Abaya retire if she did want to relieve him. No, she retires him, gives him accolades and appoints him Bases Conversion and Development Authority chief. Crap.

My list is endless but I don't want Flipzi to turn Flipzoid on me. :drunk:

The term "going to boot camp" is exactly what it means.
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Numbers
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Speaking of medals, the Brits are even stingier than the Americans - they're so meticulous in reviewing a medal candidate's act of valor that majority of Victoria Crosses were awarded posthumously and only for pure combat heroism.
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Behind every successful man, there is a woman
And behind every unsuccessful man, there are two.

A bus station is where a bus stops.
A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk, I have a work station....
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datu
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So she did receive it. But to say the least it was a "controversial" decision?

Can anybody confirm or deny the story of the S.211 pilot that committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane, because he was depressed his MG-530 pilot girlfriend was killed several days before?


"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
---The Big Lebowski
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Numbers
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datu
Apr 12 2005, 01:45 AM
So she did receive it. But to say the least it was a "controversial" decision?

Can anybody confirm or deny the story of the S.211 pilot that committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane, because he was depressed his MG-530 pilot girlfriend was killed several days before?

Hmmm...and where did you get this tabloid material datu? :drunk:
One little two little three little four little...

Behind every successful man, there is a woman
And behind every unsuccessful man, there are two.

A bus station is where a bus stops.
A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk, I have a work station....
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Pendejo
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datu
Apr 11 2005, 09:45 AM
So she did receive it. But to say the least it was a "controversial" decision?

Can anybody confirm or deny the story of the S.211 pilot that committed suicide by intentionally crashing his plane, because he was depressed his MG-530 pilot girlfriend was killed several days before?

From Manok's website:
http://www.hueybravo.net/Airforcepage/s211.htm

Pilot Lt. Jaime Sampang and backseater Lt. Roberto Espanola killed...Dived into the ground from 10,000ft at what PAF officials described as „unusually high speed, after radio contact was lost and the aircraft was seen to be flown erratically“ while rehearsing for the funeral of the pilot‘s girlfriend, Lt. Rosela Junio, who had been killed in the crash of an MD.520MG two days earlier. It is suspected that Lt. Sampang committed suicide.

I am not privy to the findings of the accident investigation but the suicide angle was a matter of speculation that could not be established. I knew both Jimmy Sampang and Spain very well. Jimmy visited me several weeks before the incident. He was a good man. They were both good men.
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datu
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Rallion Tiger:

Hmmm...and where did you get this tabloid material datu?

I heard it from friends while in vacation in the philippines while downing a case of San Miguels, long long time ago. I never got around to asking if it was real or not in the the Opus forum, since alot of military there were Ground forces not the "flying type", and i heard that there were PAF guys here, so i asked. I was reminded of the "suicide" story when the topic of an all-women crew came up. :drunk:

Pendejo:

Quote:
 
From Manok's website:
http://www.hueybravo.net/Airforcepage/s211.htm

Pilot Lt. Jaime Sampang and backseater Lt. Roberto Espanola killed...Dived into the ground from 10,000ft at what PAF officials described as „unusually high speed, after radio contact was lost and the aircraft was seen to be flown erratically“ while rehearsing for the funeral of the pilot‘s girlfriend, Lt. Rosela Junio, who had been killed in the crash of an MD.520MG two days earlier. It is suspected that Lt. Sampang committed suicide.

I am not privy to the findings of the accident investigation but the suicide angle was a matter of speculation that could not be established. I knew both Jimmy Sampang and Spain very well. Jimmy visited me several weeks before the incident. He was a good man. They were both good men.


Thanks for the heads up. AirForce? If you are, nice to see government men as open to questions. :thumb:



"F*ck it, Dude. Let's go bowling."
---The Big Lebowski
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cindy
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what a waste if he did commit suicide for his lost love, whats the use?

sayang, he could have found another girl if he lived.

suicide is really pointless and i believe only the weakest of men commit suicide
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maniegom
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datu
Apr 5 2005, 09:07 AM
the US navy used the argument that if women are pregnant while on missions in an already cramped submarine, the navy will need to make space and build different facilities for females, and multiply this to all USN submarines. they think its just too much hassle. aussies have females with seperate facilities for pregnant women in their submarines.


Datu I hate to beat a dead horse on this, but where did you get this information? It just doesn't match my notes friend and it's my fault to bring this back up since I am not constantly tracking this site any more. Just seeking clarification if you don't mind? Thanks. :dunno:
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