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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (156,072 Views)
AVBsupersonic
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How long does it take for our OV-10s from time of dispatch going to REED Bank area? Maybe they can even hear our radio control commands signals...? :dunno:
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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Samir_Duran
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TagaLaguna
May 20 2011, 02:37 AM
israeli
May 19 2011, 10:24 PM
Foreign jets ‘harassed’ PAF aircraft over Reed Bank — source
GMANews.tv
05/19/2011 | 07:33 PM


Fighter jets believed to be from China allegedly harassed last week two aircraft of the Philippine Air Force (PAF) that were conducting reconnaissance patrol over Reed Bank in near Palawan province, a military source said Thursday.


More of the story here.

They were actually MIG-29's according to intel reports.

I got information just now from Mossad that it was not a MIG 29 but an Su 27.China does not operate MIG 29's. The two look almost the same so probably they (our pilots) mistook it as MIG's.
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Hitman
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AVBsupersonic
May 19 2011, 08:39 PM
Even though sometimes it's a headache with regards to posters providing false and unsupported statements, here in PDFF Posters have a little bit of Freedom to express themselves, of course still under Moderation but not like "Martial Law" in Timawa sometimes... :dunno: It's more "For Official Use Only" in Timawa lots of technical discussions that some ordinary people who don't have knowledge to these kind of things find it hard to relate compared to here.
They are both very good Defense sites and I do think one of them can't function well without the other, "It takes two to tanggo!" :armygrin:

you are so right.. lots of assholes and idiots in Tiwama they are also biased and like to harass. Sometimes non technical also gives good ideas and then can be turn into or apply technical aspects to it. so here in PDFF all are welcome and more freedom of speech and can learn more new info. PDFF is far better.
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Hitman
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TagaLaguna
May 20 2011, 03:18 AM
TagaLaguna
May 20 2011, 02:37 AM
israeli
May 19 2011, 10:24 PM
Foreign jets ‘harassed’ PAF aircraft over Reed Bank — source
GMANews.tv
05/19/2011 | 07:33 PM


Fighter jets believed to be from China allegedly harassed last week two aircraft of the Philippine Air Force (PAF) that were conducting reconnaissance patrol over Reed Bank in near Palawan province, a military source said Thursday.


More of the story here.

They were actually MIG-29's according to intel reports.

I got information just now from Mossad that it was not a MIG 29 but an Su 27.China does not operate MIG 29's. The two look almost the same so probably they (our pilots) mistook it as MIG's.

KIG is becoming a flash point. remember, its not only China that we have to watch and worry about but other claimants like Vietnam who has better armed forces than ours. And also the goals and objectives of other claimants especially china is not to invade completely the Philippines or any other country but to seize that part that has lots of oil deposits which is at the moment in our border with them so they can go technical and say it belongs to them but once they seize and occupy it thats the end of the story folks just like they did with that reef they seize recently. Our AFP modernization is way behind now and kind of late. If China decides to make a move we are check mate guys. But of course may as well proceed with the military build up but we have to move faster. otherwise we have more to loose as time goes by. lets hope China will not make a drastic move yet. we need to build stronger alliances with Japan and South Korea also maybe they can help patrol the area for the mean time while we are working on our slow modernization
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Samir_Duran
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Hitman
May 20 2011, 03:31 AM
AVBsupersonic
May 19 2011, 08:39 PM
Even though sometimes it's a headache with regards to posters providing false and unsupported statements, here in PDFF Posters have a little bit of Freedom to express themselves, of course still under Moderation but not like "Martial Law" in Timawa sometimes... :dunno:  It's more "For Official Use Only" in Timawa lots of technical discussions that some ordinary people who don't have knowledge to these kind of things find it hard to relate compared to here. 
They are both very good Defense sites and I do think one of them can't function well without the other, "It takes two to tanggo!"    :armygrin:

you are so right.. lots of assholes and idiots in Tiwama they are also biased and like to harass. Sometimes non technical also gives good ideas and then can be turn into or apply technical aspects to it. so here in PDFF all are welcome and more freedom of speech and can learn more new info. PDFF is far better.


Agree! I came from that forum but it was a not so good experience. It's like that forum is for scientists only no bobo. Here, you can be who you are at the same time maka-MASA. Pang JUAN DELA CRUZ. There it's like military nerds, geeks, military scientists, political scientists. Opinions does not matter but facts. They are more on the brain. Here it is brain, heart, and conscience. I like it here VERY MUCH. I even made some friends here in real life.
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AVBsupersonic
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You are right H, although Vietnam doesn't really mind us re; Reed Bank Area maybe because they know and respect that it is well within our EEZ, it's only China a stray who's by far long way from home... :crazy:

I don't think asking JAPAN who's busy dealing with it's own problems right now, same with South Korea with the North, for them to patrol for us is not applicable and Unethical.

The only quick solution for us that I can see is to ask the US to lease us (2) Squadrons of either F-18s or F-16s on a Lease to Own Terms, or ask South Korea if they can sell us some of their KF-5s like (8-12) Tiger II will be the much quicker and faster for our PAF Pilots to adapt due to familiarity with the F-5s, this is a better option than not to have one and need it.... :thumb:
Even though Chinese SU-27s are more superior than the KF-5 Tiger II still it can put up a good fight especially if it's equipped with the right armaments/ weapons.
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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Zero wing
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Why not buy sams and anti-tank and air manpads from South Korea give Philippine Navy, Airforce and Army build air defense first then buy those KAI KT-1 since they have air to air capabilities and for training and to be force multiplier long air patrol then buy the old F5 or vice versa then KF-16 and KAI T-50 Golden Eagle and P-3ck.
"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom."

“As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,”(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile)

“Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson)
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Marschall
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desertranger
May 19 2011, 11:28 AM
Modernization of one's military capabilities inherently enables a country to defend its territories and project a viable and capable force deterent from being bullies such as China or neighbors. Anything less than that will preclude a country from obtaining long term economic and industrial strength. Philippines has the ideal warriors and ethos required to fight the fight. However without proper equipment, state of the art technology it will all be for not should they engage an enemy such as China with its horde of savages....Thanks to it's corrupt Generals and Politicians they have been reduced and perceived by the world as being mere traffic cops with at most a stop sign as one could rightly put it....Th poor state of readiness due to outdated armaments, weapons, tactics and communications has severely eroded esprit de corps, nationalism, and above all motivation and love for country...all due to inadequate pay levels and cronyism.....If a soldier determines that his country is ill equiping him and paying him substandard wages, will it affect his temperment and loyalty to country or to his immediate family and surroundings. I have heard one officer say that he would not risk his all for a Flag because his family needs him more. Enough said, a house cleaning and reorganization is severely needed....

The US also has finally realized that we can win any fight with anyone but we can't sustain a war especially a two front one for a period of 5-10 years. The books are being written now on Counter-Insurgency Operations, Force Projection and How To Fight the rapidly and ever changing spectrum and dimensions of War to include Operations Other than War (OOTW). So there you have it....Even the US is learning that being the king of the hill can only be on a timeline.

Thats probably why the Spratlys have been put on the back burner for so long due to the country's inability to send a strong message to anyone to " Hands off" their claims to the islands. So for the time being it will just be words and feints bluffs. But those are just my opinions.

A very good comment!

All the "diplomacy" rants of our officials mean nothing when China can simply intrude into our territory - which she routinely does - without expecting any opposition at all.
What is needed is that the AFP be given the hardware it needs to fulfill its mission: securing the Philippines against interior and extrerior foes.
The Chinese want the oil in the Spratlys: no matter how much our politicrocodiles whine diplomatically, the ChiComs will not care: they will - the sooner or later - take what they want.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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Hitman
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AVBsupersonic
May 20 2011, 04:10 AM
You are right H, although Vietnam doesn't really mind us re; Reed Bank Area maybe because they know and respect that it is well within our EEZ, it's only China a stray who's by far long way from home... :crazy:

I don't think asking JAPAN who's busy dealing with it's own problems right now, same with South Korea with the North, for them to patrol for us is not applicable and Unethical.

The only quick solution for us that I can see is to ask the US to lease us (2) Squadrons of either F-18s or F-16s on a Lease to Own Terms, or ask South Korea if they can sell us some of their KF-5s like (8-12) Tiger II will be the much quicker and faster for our PAF Pilots to adapt due to familiarity with the F-5s, this is a better option than not to have one and need it.... :thumb:
Even though Chinese SU-27s are more superior than the KF-5 Tiger II still it can put up a good fight especially if it's equipped with the right armaments/ weapons.

I cannot emphasize this more, we need a few mid size or small attack subs, owning or having a sub is like engaging the superior enemy in guerilla warfare. its invisible even with sonars or ASW, a good sub and crew can hide and wait. For all we know we Chinese subs probably been inside our territory a dozen times and already know its way in and out like their own. I am against the return of the US bases because once they are here its very hard to ask them out. Its like an occupation force. Im not only against US bases but any foreign bases in our country. Strong military alliances and cooperation are better. besides the presence of US bases is not a guarantee that they will repel China once it seize one of our reefs or islets rich in oil. Leasing some F18 or F16 with rent to own is not a bad idea. We should also look for some other countries who are willing to make such deals or barter trade in exchange for fighter jets. But if true that the oil discovery in Palawan has deposits like that of Iraq then we should have some lots of cash in near future and can apply for loans for the acquisitions of newer logistics and weaponry.
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Marschall
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The easiest low-cost "solution" at the moment is to deploy MANPADs on the islands of the Kalayaan Groups. That will stop the jets from flying over our islands - at least for a certain altitude.

As for foreign bases: I think they could generate extra income and also extra protection. I wouldn't have any issues with them. Let's be honest: the AFP is currently incapable of protecting the country anyways.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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