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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (156,076 Views)
Hitman
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zztopy
Apr 28 2011, 06:26 AM
Possible return of US forces to Subic

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadl...-Subic-possible

I think we should agree only if the US categorically accepts that the KIG is part of PH territory.

what do you think gentlemen? :ssalute:

nope, it creates more problems than advantage. we will never learn to be fully independent if we keep on depending on the US. Its long overdue that we function like an independent nation but still not. the following problems with the presence of US bases are: as we have seen in the past;
1. most US servicemen who commit crimes are protected and get away with it as we already saw in the past. They do not really respect our laws, obviously since our justice system is corrupt anyway like the rest of the government.
2. the spread of social diseases like now AIDs or HIVs, Herpes are prevalent in US servicemen because of their use of prostitution around the world where they have bases. and there no cures yet for this diseases.
3. Unwanted babies by US servicemen creates social problems and drain our social services.
4. Increase prostitution and illegal drugs.
5. Toxic chemicals and pollutants being dumped in our seas and land occupied by US bases causing environmental problems and costs.

So these are just a few problems we will encounter again with the US bases in exchange for protection? and defense against China? are we this incompetent and coward? In other countries like Japan and Germany and Uzbekistan they wanted to close the US bases because of some of these issues mentioned above but the politicians of those countries are being controlled and persuaded in many means. Once the US bases usually are here, it will be very hard to reverse the decision.

What we need is our politicians and generals to get their act seriously in governing and this include the average person to make changes for the interest of the nation and nation building but so far we are slow in this as shown. Unless these changes happen there will never be a modernized AFP and a stable Philippines,
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Fmr TOPP Awardee 82'PNP
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The dreams of the dreamers of modernizing the AFP is quite in the horizon of affordability.

Cowardice ? whom are we coward of ? It is not necessary to be scared of a country that can crushed us like head lies . We all die anyway if it happens. What are we scared of is when, or will it happen ? Other countries have allowed the US bases for economic reasons and why they're still there ? - because there are more who are looking forward to their economy than dissinters - just like the Philippines.
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"GUILTY CONSCIENCE NEEDS NO ACCUSER"
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AVBsupersonic
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Fmr TOPP Awardee 82'PNP
Apr 28 2011, 06:56 AM
Why not ? Another 9billion pesos a year added to the state coffers.

I Agree with you Sir Topp!

P 9B. Pesos, was that the amount before, 10 yrs ago? then maybe double that amount! :thumb:
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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Samir_Duran
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Hitman
Apr 28 2011, 09:26 AM
zztopy
Apr 28 2011, 06:26 AM
Possible return of US forces to Subic

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadl...-Subic-possible

I think we should agree only if the US categorically accepts that the KIG is part of PH territory.

what do you think gentlemen? :ssalute:

nope, it creates more problems than advantage. we will never learn to be fully independent if we keep on depending on the US. Its long overdue that we function like an independent nation but still not. the following problems with the presence of US bases are: as we have seen in the past;
1. most US servicemen who commit crimes are protected and get away with it as we already saw in the past. They do not really respect our laws, obviously since our justice system is corrupt anyway like the rest of the government.
2. the spread of social diseases like now AIDs or HIVs, Herpes are prevalent in US servicemen because of their use of prostitution around the world where they have bases. and there no cures yet for this diseases.
3. Unwanted babies by US servicemen creates social problems and drain our social services.
4. Increase prostitution and illegal drugs.
5. Toxic chemicals and pollutants being dumped in our seas and land occupied by US bases causing environmental problems and costs.

So these are just a few problems we will encounter again with the US bases in exchange for protection? and defense against China? are we this incompetent and coward? In other countries like Japan and Germany and Uzbekistan they wanted to close the US bases because of some of these issues mentioned above but the politicians of those countries are being controlled and persuaded in many means. Once the US bases usually are here, it will be very hard to reverse the decision.

What we need is our politicians and generals to get their act seriously in governing and this include the average person to make changes for the interest of the nation and nation building but so far we are slow in this as shown. Unless these changes happen there will never be a modernized AFP and a stable Philippines,

That is the point. We should learn from the mistakes of the past and make sure these are fixed before implementation. However, I will disagree to some points of the arguments. AIDS, HIV? Just wear a condom. Unwanted babies? again CONDOM. Prostitution and illegal drugs? Who the hell in the first place would have this available if none of our women sell themselves to get money? Our law says prostitution is illegal. Why blame US service men when our fellow citizens opens such immoral businesses. Same with drugs. Are the Americans the one who sold drugs? makes prostitute? There is something wrong with us not them. Our laws can be respected and obeyed if we ourselves do it. Besides, the money we get from the lease of the land is very much welcome to add to the modernization funds of our AFP.
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32niner
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the arrangement should be like the one in qatar, and they have to pay more than the last time.
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spraret
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With Japan sidelined, US sees
PH as filling security vacuum


http://www.malaya.com.ph/apr29/news2.html

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Hitman
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spraret
Apr 29 2011, 09:43 PM
With Japan sidelined, US sees
PH as filling security vacuum


http://www.malaya.com.ph/apr29/news2.html

this return of the bases issue should be voted for by the people in a referendum. In addition I strongly suggest that the re basing issue if ever true should be tied with a contract that the US will modernize the AFP with all the assets needed to counter any external threats and that includes mini subs, MBTs, fighter jets, radars, more training etc. with a clause that the AFP can also procure any future logistics or weapons systems in other countries if needed without US intervention. and I don't know if this one is possible, which is that any US serviceman who commits crime in Philippine soil will be prosecuted and jailed in the Philippines and not the US and the monitoring of harzadous materials being dumped in the country if any will be along the guidelines of the enviromental protection dept. But Im telling you all the spread of AIDs will increase. Not all servicemen will use condoms especially when they are drunk. Be prepared for these problems.
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AZKALS
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China to BEEF UP patrols over Spratly's... :armycool:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_...isputed_islands


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Zero wing
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Let them as long as they are not going near us with force!!! let the world see want arrogant sons of bitch this scum bags are i just be to HK arrogant sons of bitches talaga
"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom."

As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile)

Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson)
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Vermonter
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ASIA PACIFIC Date Posted: 04-May-2011

Jane's Defence Weekly

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
China beefing up maritime patrol fleet
J Michael Cole JDW Correspondent
Taipei

Key Points
China is boosting the size and capability of its maritime surveillance fleet as Beijing increases its presence in the South and East China seas

A larger number of helicopter-capable and potentially armed ships will help China enforce disputed territorial claims

The State Oceanic Administration's China Marine Surveillance (CMS) announced on 2 May that it would increase personnel, upgrade its existing fleet and acquire 36 new surveillance ships to patrol its territorial waters over the next five years.

As part of the 12th Five Year Plan approved by the State Council, 36 Haijian surveillance ships will join the CMS fleet, which currently consists of about 300 cutters, including 30 with displacement over 1,000 tonnes. The additions are part of the third phase of a CMS expansion project launched in 2000.

According to reports, seven 1,500-tonne, 15 1,000-tonne and 14 600-tonne ships are to be acquired. Other projections indicate the CMS may seek vessels with higher displacement, including three in the 5,000-tonne class, as it begins patrolling further out at sea.

Lyle Goldstein, associate professor at the US Naval War College's China Maritime Studies Institute, told Jane's that although the new vessels' tonnage had yet to be announced, the trend in the past three to four years had been towards greater displacement.

Some of the platforms are reportedly to be built by Huangpu Shipbuilding and Wuchang Shipbuilding Industry, with the latter producing the bulk of the 600-tonne cutters. Wuchang is also reportedly scheduled to deliver a 5,418-tonne vessel capable of landing a large helicopter to the CMS by May 2012.

According to Goldstein, a growing number of larger CMS vessels are helicopter-capable and are becoming more advanced in terms of electronics and manoeuverability.

CMS deputy director Sun Shuxian announced that by the end of 2011 manpower at the agency would increase by more than 1,000 to about 10,000 and that China would "carry out regular sea patrols more frequently to strengthen law enforcement in Chinese related waters to safeguard the country's maritime rights in 2011".

In December 2008 two CMS ships sailed around the Senkaku (Diaoyutai) islands and spent more than nine hours in the territorial waters of Japan, which along with Taiwan and China claims sovereignty over the area. In March 2011 Japan complained to China after a CMS helicopter flew within 70 m of a Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force destroyer patrolling a disputed gas field in the East China Sea.

CMS vessels also enforce China's claims to the Spratly and Paracel islands in the South China Sea, which are claimed by Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam.

Although CMS ships have traditionally been unarmed, Goldstein said this might be changing. In a October 2008 statement Sun said that "the [CMS] force will be upgraded to a reserve unit under the navy, a move which will make it better armed during patrols .... The current defensive strength of CMS is inadequate".

James Holmes, associate professor of strategy at the US Naval War College, told Jane's that increasing the fleet of non-military vessels to enforce China's territorial claims makes a lot of sense.

"This is a matter of picking the right tool for the job. You don't need a guided missile warship to chase off fishing boats. A ship from one of the non-naval services can do that just fine," he said. "Pictures of a heavily armed warship menacing small craft would convey the impression that China is an overbearing sea power willing to trample on its neighbours - a very bad message to send if you're trying to portray your nation as an inoffensive seafaring power."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------www.janes.com
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