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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (156,099 Views)
AVBsupersonic
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It is clear that the only reason why China is trying to bully all claimants of the spratley because of its natural resources, not because it's part of their territory because if this was the case they should have occupied it a long time ago and developed it. its the same stupid thinking like they own the whole CHINA SEA??? Philippines claim is more legal than any country involved on the disputed islands. But the problem for us is that we don't hold a stronger card.
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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Marschall
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I'm not sure if there is "nothing to be concerned of"

After the Russian-Georgian war, I think that China has seen how much a military power can do without getting any real "contra" from other countries.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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freedom fighter
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Marschall
Jul 26 2010, 07:26 PM
I'm not sure if there is "nothing to be concerned of"

After the Russian-Georgian war, I think that Chinas has seen how much a military power can do without getting and real "contra" from other countries.

I agree. I don't think there is "nothing to be concerned of".
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saver111
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Posted Image

A sign welcomes visitor at the naval outpost of the Philippines Navy at the Pag-asa island Friday, May 2, 2008 in the Kalayaan island group, south west of Manila, one of the nine islands and reefs occupied by Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly islands in the South China sea. The battle for ownership of the potentially oil-rich Spratlys has settled into an uneasy stand-off since the last fighting in 1988.
(AP Photo/Jim Gomez)

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An aerial shot taken from a military plane Friday May 9, 1997 of the Philippine-held island of Kota, southwest of Manila, one of the disputed islands of Spratly, without any Chinese presence after the Philippine government sent a diplomatic protest to China. Chinese navy ships were spotted in a shoal south of this island from April 23 to May 3, 1997. (AP Photo/ Victoria Calaguian)

Posted Image

Philippine Army troops take a leisurely walk along the white sand beach of Pag-asa Friday, May 2, 2008 in the Kalayaan island group, south west of Manila, one of the nine islands and reefs occupied by Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly islands in the South China sea. (AP Photo/Jim Gomez)
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Justice for Daniel Lorenz Jacinto

HELP END PIRACY NOW!:
http://www.itfseafarers.org/petition.cfm
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saver111
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China criticizes Clinton comments on island chains
AP

By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, Associated Press Writer Christopher Bodeen, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 20 mins ago

BEIJING – China's military on Friday criticized remarks by U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that Washington had a strong interest in seeing territorial disputes in the South China Sea resolved peacefully.

Ministry spokesman Geng Yansheng told reporters that China opposes what he called the "internationalization" of the matter, a reflection of Beijing's long-held position that the disagreements were a matter for China and the other disputants to deal with alone.

China claims the entire sea and its island chains as territorial waters over which it exercises complete sovereignty. Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei, and the Philippines also claim some or all of the islands that lie amid vital shipping lanes and are believed to have large oil and natural gas reserves.

China has opposed a multilateral approach to the disputes, preferring to deal with each country on a bilateral basis.

"We are the against the internationalization of the South China Sea issue," Geng said at a rare news conference held at an engineering regiment's base on the western outskirts of Beijing.

However, he indicated that China would not interfere with the passage of foreign ships and planes through the area as long as they were in compliance with international law. China strongly opposes U.S. naval surveillance missions conducted in the South China Sea off its southern coast, calling them illegal.

Geng's mild tone appeared to indicate China does not wish to escalate the disagreement over Clinton's remarks, delivered last week at a regional security forum in Vietnam.

Clinton said the U.S. was concerned that conflicting claims on the Spratly and Paracel island chains interfere with maritime commerce, hamper access to international waters in the area and undermine the U.N. law of the sea.

The United States, Clinton said, has a "national interest" in resolving the claims and opposes the use or threat of force by any claimant.

Although Washington says it does not take sides in the various territorial disputes, Clinton's remarks constituted a clarification of U.S. policy in the region that added to Chinese concerns over newly active U.S. diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

Although her comments appeared to take China by surprise, U.S. officials say Beijing first upped the ante by telling visiting Deputy Secretary of State James Steinberg this spring that the South China Sea was now considered one of the country's "core interests" alongside Taiwan and Tibet.

The spat is the latest in a series of disputes that have roiled bilateral relations in recent months, stoking nationalist sentiment in China and causing U.S. officials to reconsider their original low-key approach to human rights and other sensitive issues.

Beijing had expressed concerns about joint U.S.-South Korean war-games this week in the Yellow Sea off the northeastern Chinese coast, saying the participation of the aircraft carrier USS George Washington could be seen as a provocation by putting Beijing within striking range of U.S. F-18 warplanes.

The exercises were a response to North Korea's suspected sinking of a South Korean warship earlier this year, and Geng said China — Pyongyang's main ally — was concerned they could further raise tensions in the area.

He said Washington bore responsibility for repairing a rift in ties that prompted Beijing earlier to suspend exchanges with the U.S. military in anger over Washington's $6.4 billion arms sale to Taiwan and turn down a proposed visit by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_..._china_military
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Justice for Daniel Lorenz Jacinto

HELP END PIRACY NOW!:
http://www.itfseafarers.org/petition.cfm
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Fmr TOPP Awardee 82'PNP
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freedom fighter
Jul 26 2010, 05:46 PM
I understand your patriotism but it may be the fatal thick layer of bias that will cover your eyes from the proper understanding of international events in the light of public international law.

To make it simple because you want to surrender the Spratleys to the Chinese, if international law had protected the Chinese in their claims, It is the UN that will be the one to first drive away the Filipino presence in the island and plant the Chinese flag there.
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"GUILTY CONSCIENCE NEEDS NO ACCUSER"
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desertranger
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This is just me talking. My reasoning on why China claims the Spratly's is because they can use that as a staging area to control the South China Sea. Sort of like a Forward Outpost or Operating Base. Plus I wouldn't put it past China that they were the real culprits who sunk the S. Korean warship with their latest stealth subs.... Then trigger a war between N and S with the US entering the fray.... To wear down two or three foes at once...China would then move on Taiwan while the US was engaged in three wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, Koreas).... Never did like China...
Remember in Nov 2007 the Chinese stealth sub (160ft Song Class) diesel-electric attack submarine popped out about in range of the USS Kitty Hawk This stunned America as they had no idea that China had advanced that well and slipped through a dozen ships that were in front of the Kitty Hawk to act as early warning...
"
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AVBsupersonic
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You are absolutely right!!! It can be possible.... Don't forget IRAN as well and there's no way they can win 5 wars happening at the same time how ever superpower they are without allies it's going to be a 3rd world war if that happens.... LET'S PRAY NOT!!

SPRATLEY Islands aside from CHINA's interests in oil and natural gas found on that group of island it is also a STRATEGIC place for them to intercept any reinforcements coming from the US if the TAIWAN conflicts arises. and we don't know if part of their strategy if that time happens is to take over the parts of the PHILIPPINES as well??? we will be like a sacrificial lamb and a catch basin unable to defend the country due to our present status without any external defence capabilities and equipments.
It's time for our PHILIPPINE Government to THINK HARD and CHANGE it's PRIORITIES! FASTRACK the AFP Modernization particularly TERRITORIAL and EXTERNAL DEFENCE Capabilities..... and try to consider international issues that are happening which can be a threat to us if "hell break loose! "
( Hindi natin pwede sabihin na hindi tayo kasali diyan lalo kung kasali ang US, at malapit sa atin...")

China still to boost 1,600 missiles aimed at Taiwan to 1,900.

Taipei: China could raise the number of missiles aimed at Taiwan to 1,900 by the end of the year despite warming ties between the former bitter rivals, according to the island's deputy defence minister.
Military experts estimate that the PLA currently has more than 1,600 missiles aimed at the island.
But recent media reports have said the People's Liberation Army may boost the number of short-range ballistic and cruise missiles facing Taiwan to 1,960 before the year's end.
"Judging from their manufacturing capacities, the PLA could increase to that number of missiles targeting Taiwan before the year's end," Andrew Yang, an academic-turned deputy defence minister, told AFP.
http://www.defencetalk.com/china-may-boost...-to-1900-27651/
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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valiant
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stating the obvious....

RP lacks arms in case of war in Spratlys

By Jorge V. Cariño, ABS-CBN News
Posted at 08/18/2010 3:44 PM | Updated as of 08/18/2010 3:44 PM

MANILA, Philippines – The Philippine military has admitted it has nothing in its arsenal that can be used in the event armed conflict breaks out among nations with conflicting claims over the Spratlys Group of Islands in the South China Sea..

This statement was made by Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) Chief of Staff Lt. Gen Ricardo David, Jr. at a press conference held on Wednesday after the 52nd RP-US Mutual Defense Board (MDB) meeting.

David was joined by Admiral Robert Willard, commander of the Hawaii-based US Pacific Command.

The meeting was held amid reports that Vietnam and Malaysia, which are also claimants to the contested islands, are embarking on the acquisition of submarines.

David said “these [acquisitions] are only natural tendencies of states to protect their interest, so normal lang sa mga Malaysians, sa Vietnam to have these military hardware so that they can protect, sabi ko nga, their interest in the area."

But the AFP chief doubts if a shooting war will break out among the claimants. He believes the conflicting claims on the islands can be settled before international fora, and, if war breaks out, David said “wala naman tayong ipuputok.”

David thus reiterated the need to procure assets for the military so it can guard Philippine territory.

“The Philippines must now procure or must have this minimal asset, kahit na minimal lang, hinihingi lang natin sa ating mamamayan,” said David.

Admiral Willard stressed the need for nations to develop the militaries that they think will meet their needs.

Willard described the appropriate security as one of “preventing conflict,” with importance on investing in sufficient military and security apparatuses to protect respective territorial waters.

“At the end of the day, that shows that we can all contribute to the peace and the continued security of the South China Sea region and throughout Southeast Asia," Willard said.

Willard assured that they are working continually with the AFP in trying to shape up the country's defense needs. He described the cooperation level as one conducted through joint training and exchange of intelligence information.

The Philippines, China, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam, and Taiwan have conflicting claims over the South China Sea.


http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/08/18/10...se-war-spratlys
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MSantor
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Ouch.

Philippine Daily Inquirer link

Quote:
 
Peace RP’s only option in Spratlys

By Dona Pazzibugan
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 03:34:00 08/19/2010

MANILA, Philippines—Armed Forces Chief of Staff Ricardo David Jr. could not have better summed up the military’s options in case armed conflict erupted in the South China Sea due to territorial disputes over the Spratlys chain of islands.

In front of the visiting commander of the United States Pacific Command, David said the Philippines would not be part of a shooting war.

“Unang-una wala naman tayong ipuputok (In the first place, we have nothing to shoot with),” David said, drawing grins from some reporters while Admiral Robert Willard simply looked on since he could not understand Filipino.

David expressed hopes that no shooting war would occur in the South China Sea. “We want to avoid that, even our US counterpart would not like any violent activities in the South China Sea,” he said.

The head of the 130,000-strong Armed Forces of the Philippines asked Congress to provide the AFP with even just a “minimal credible force” in the South China Sea as neighboring countries, especially China, which have claimed ownership of the Spratlys, have their ships and planes.

China claims sovereignty over the entire South China Sea, which is strewn with disputed groups of islands, including the Spratly archipelago—also claimed in whole or in part by Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

Negligible capability


“Our capability in the South China Sea is almost negligible. Our sea patrol is very minimal. The Department of National Defense and the President would like us to have at least a minimum credible force,” David said.

He said it was high time for Congress to set aside funds for the AFP’s modernization. “We need a credible Air Force, a credible Philippine Navy,” said David, who was once an Army general.


He told reporters that should a shooting war erupt, all the AFP could do was to alert soldiers stationed in the Kalayaan island group so they could protect themselves.

Preventing conflict

At the joint press conference, Willard said the United States was taking seriously all maritime “encounters” in the South China Sea.

“The US doesn’t take sides in the contested areas throughout this region. We adhere to the legal framework of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea and we believe that the Code of Conduct (in the South China Sea) should be adhered to,” said the commander of the US Pacific Command.

(...)
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