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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (155,945 Views)
Tsukiyomi
Member
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OK so now in the earliest articles coming out of China, travel agencies were directed to essentially shut down tours and such but then later the subsequent articles say that the government did not direct the shutdowns yet the shutdowns are taking place...

The question is: Is this shutdown part of an attempt to punish the Philippines by cutting back on tourists and getting it's "message" across OR is this a step in preparing for an actual conflict and minimizing the number of non-official Chinese citizens in country?

This alone should be raising a red flag in the US PACOM as it has a dual purpose. If the big brains haven't already..I hope they are sending us a few ships to be very very close by.

So looking at the shutdown of travel from a punitive economic measure, it is almost worthless as Chinese tourists do not bring in anywhere near the same amount of revenue as say Korean, Japanese or even western tourists. Many in the hotel and travel industry have stated they are not exactly overwhelmed by the profit margins when dealing with Chinese.

Then there is what is starting to shape up as the great Fruit blockade... Who is really hurting in that one?

I certainly hope we don't waste a moment and begin to ban all Chinese products as I know damn well it is going to hurt them a hell of alot more than us. The last few items I bought from the mainland were complete crap and I will not be buying any more of their shiite anyway.

Finally where is the apology from anyone in the Chinese government or from that news agency over the serious media gaffe..if it indeed was a "accident".

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THE_NEWS_MAN
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Military now mum on Panatag situation

MANILA, Philippines - Defense and military officials are now withholding comment on developments in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal off Zambales that is also being claimed by China.

“Statements on monitoring of the situation is no longer within our level,” a military official based in Northern Luzon told The STAR yesterday, referring to the ongoing standoff in Panatag Shoal, which is 124 nautical miles from Masinloc, Zambales.

The Northern Luzon Command (Nolcom) under Lt. Gen. Anthony Alcantara has operational jurisdiction over Panatag Shoal.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) is now dealing with all underlying matters resulting from the month-long territorial standoff.

“Huwag natin palakihin pa (Let’s not make this issue bigger),” Gazmin said, referring to the series of pronouncements coming from Beijing, including a claim made by a Chinese television commentator saying that the Philippines belongs to China.

China also declared its readiness for “any escalation” in the event the Panatag Shoal standoff worsens.

A month ago yesterday, two Chinese Maritime Surveillance Vessels (CMS) prevented the Philippine Navy flagship BRP Gregorio del Pilar from arresting Chinese fishermen who were poaching inside the lagoon of Panatag Shoal.

The standoff continued after Beijing deployed one of its modern ships, the FLEC (Fisheries and Law Enforcement Command) 310 in the area in support of their other vessels that are now pre-positioned in the mouth of the lagoon.



Local fishermen from Masinloc, Zambales complained that Chinese vessels have barred them from entering Panatag Shoal.

Members of the militant fisherfolk group Pamalakaya dared presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda and Defense Secretary Gazmin to visit Panatag Shoal to see how Filipino fishermen are being barred from entering the lagoon in Panatag Shoal that is also called Bajo de Masinloc and Karburo by local fishermen.

“The people and the local government of Masinloc are telling the world that small fishermen are barred from entering Panatag Shoal,” said Fernando Hicap, Pamalakaya president.

Masinloc Mayor Desiree Edora said that Chinese vessels have prevented local fishermen from fishing inside the lagoon of Bajo de Masinloc.

Edora’s municipal secretary RJay Bautista said that these recent incidents at Bajo de Masinloc have been recorded by the Navy and by the Nolcom troops who interviewed the fishermen following their return from Panatag Shoal last Sunday.

Meanwhile, the defense department is also mum on the decision of Chinese travel agencies to suspend tourist packages to the Philippines.

“Let us not blow that up. We’ll just let the DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs) answer that,” Gazmin said.

Rommel Banlaoi, executive director of think tank Philippine Institute for Peace, Violence and Terrorism Research, dismissed the move of the Chinese travel agencies.

“That is not prudent for China to suspend tourist packages to the Philippines amid the Panatag Shoal standoff,” Banlaoi said.

“If that is true, it is not a friendly gesture, considering that years 2012 and 2013 have been declared years of friendly exchanges between the Philippines and China,” he added.

Source

now finally the AFP is reacting this is a good sign baka mapabilis ang modernization.mnga militar nagaalagan na WE NEED MORE MODERN WEAPONS THAT CAN MAKE CHINA THINK TWICE BEFORE CHALLENGING OUR SOVEREIGNTY.
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Tsukiyomi
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Soooo..i meant to continue..I had some discussions with some "average Joe's" in America this morning and as expected, all them really don't expect the Chinese to attack us if we continue on our current trajectory in deteriorating relations.

I took the conversation one step further and said ok what if an attack does occur..then what? Sadly more than a few don't quite understand just how serious the situation is and would be if that happened and how that will affect the geopolitical balance in Asia if there is not a strong response from the americans to back up their "relook" policy towards Asia.

The common thought was that their government won't do anything because China "owns them" financially. I argued the opposite but that does not change the perception of some "smart" american guys.
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icefrog
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BFAR plans to scatter 160 ‘payaos’ off western Luzon

The Philippines may not be able to send more vessels to Scarborough Shoal, but it can fence off its fishing grounds in waters near the disputed area.

Agriculture officials Thursday said the Philippines would expand the number of fish aggregating devices called payao in the waters off the coast of western Luzon, including Zambales province, where China and the Philippines are disputing possession of Scarborough Shoal.

Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) Director Asis Perez said the Philippine government recently ordered new payaos to be placed in the open sea. As such, fishermen would not have to venture out to the ocean to fish and risk their lives.

A payao is made of hooks attached to a sturdy rope that can be lowered as deep as 1,500 meters under the sea. A buoy is attached to the top end of the line to mark its location for fishermen. Most payaos in the Philippines are anchored to the sea floor.

Perez said the plan was to scatter 160 shallow-water and deep-sea payaos from La Union to Zambales. While there are fishermen who harvest fish in the waters around Scarborough Shoal (also called Panatag Shoal in the Philippines), Perez said the government would not put a payao there because it is too far from the coast.
He said the area is a seasonal fishing ground, where waves become too rough for small boats by July.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36401/bfa...f-western-luzon
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Goose
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China bangs the war drum over South China Sea

China has warned that it is ready to take military action to defend what it says is its territory

War talk, it seems, is all the rage in China at the minute.

Yes, there are serious people in serious publications seriously advocating war.

You might have missed it during all the fuss about Chen Guangcheng, but, for a month now, China has been embroiled in an increasingly bellicose dispute with the Philippines.

So what is going on? Well, strange as it may seem, the two stories may be connected.

At the heart of the issue is what is called Scarborough Shoal by the Philippines and Huangyan Island by China, a little more than 100 miles (160km) from the Philippines and 500 miles from China.

The names are a bit misleading because this is a series of rocks, reefs and small islands stretching across an area of about 150sq km (58 sq miles) of the South China Sea, claimed by both the Philippines and China.

You can see what one "island" looks like here, a screenshot taken from a Chinese TV report yesterday - that is the reporter posing on the rock, and then planting the Chinese flag on it, which gives an insight into the way the issue is being played by China's media.

For a month now, there has been a standoff between Chinese and Philippine fishing and coastguard vessels near the outcrops.

The Global Times, a highly nationalistic English language paper produced by the Communist Party's People's Daily Group, has a useful map that shows how far China's territorial claims extend, on this special page it is now devoting to this 'conflict'.

On Tuesday, China's Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying summoned a Philippine diplomat for the third time in this standoff, and delivered a warning, that China has "made all preparations to respond to any escalation of the situation by the Philippine side".

On Wednesday, the Global Times helpfully explained in its editorial that Ms Fu's "remarks are seen as China sending a sign that it will not rule out the use of force".

The paper explained: "The Philippines needs to be taught a lesson for its aggressive nationalism. For China, the standoff over Huangyan Island is a matter of sovereignty. And now Manila needs to be defeated in this area... If the standoff escalates into a military clash, the international community should not be completely surprised".

For China, sovereignty is one of the key issues it says it will not compromise on, so it is sending strong signals but also boxing itself in.

Unlike the Chen Guangcheng case, which has been heavily censored, China's internet is full of coverage of this story (for a taste, here is the special page created by sohu.com) which says China's sovereignty has been challenged and the Philippines is creating problems.

So it is fair to believe all this coverage is officially approved.

The odd thing here is that the Philippine navy consists of just one proper ship and that is an ancient US Coast Guard cutter which is hardly a match for China's navy, as this online commentary by "The Comparativist" makes clear.

The Comparativist writes: "I think this is happening because the Philippines is so weak. The Chinese government can beat the war drums all they want, and as loud as they want, and no war is going to happen. It's akin to bullying someone in a wheelchair that you know can't punch back."

That's one possibility. China, and its foreign ministry in particular, have been at the receiving end of intense criticism recently, whether over the Chen Guangcheng case or the Bo Xilai scandal.

So building up a row with the Philippines may be a way of trying to look tough, distract public attention, and hype a bit of nationalist fervour.

But there are dangers here too. The president of the Philippines has tweeted this statement this week, making clear that the Philippines believes America will help protect it from any Chinese aggression. So a dispute could lead to a very tense situation.

China's policy in the South China Sea is not a simple matter, directed clearly from the top as the International Crisis Group has detailed, but affected by many different players.

And now we have more escalation. China is now piling commercial pressure on top of the diplomatic and military pressure, halting tourism to the Philippines, tightening inspections of fruit imports and warning its citizens to be careful of their safety during demonstrations planned for Manila on Friday.

It's a dangerous dynamic that could escalate much further yet. We will keep watching.


The odd thing here is that the Philippine navy consists of just one proper ship and that is an ancient US Coast Guard cutter which is hardly a match for China's navy, as this online commentary by "The Comparativist" makes clear. The Comparativist writes: "I think this is happening because the Philippines is so weak. The Chinese government can beat the war drums all they want, and as loud as they want, and no war is going to happen. It's akin to bullying someone in a wheelchair that you know can't punch back."


How true............ (sigh)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18016901
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AVBsupersonic
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Tsukiyomi
May 11 2012, 01:04 AM
OK so now in the earliest articles coming out of China, travel agencies were directed to essentially shut down tours and such but then later the subsequent articles say that the government did not direct the shutdowns yet the shutdowns are taking place...

The question is: Is this shutdown part of an attempt to punish the Philippines by cutting back on tourists and getting it's "message" across OR is this a step in preparing for an actual conflict and minimizing the number of non-official Chinese citizens in country?

This alone should be raising a red flag in the US PACOM as it has a dual purpose. If the big brains haven't already..I hope they are sending us a few ships to be very very close by.

So looking at the shutdown of travel from a punitive economic measure, it is almost worthless as Chinese tourists do not bring in anywhere near the same amount of revenue as say Korean, Japanese or even western tourists. Many in the hotel and travel industry have stated they are not exactly overwhelmed by the profit margins when dealing with Chinese.

Then there is what is starting to shape up as the great Fruit blockade... Who is really hurting in that one?

I certainly hope we don't waste a moment and begin to ban all Chinese products as I know damn well it is going to hurt them a hell of alot more than us. The last few items I bought from the mainland were complete crap and I will not be buying any more of their shiite anyway.

Finally where is the apology from anyone in the Chinese government or from that news agency over the serious media gaffe..if it indeed was a "accident".

i think we bring more Filipino Tourist to Macau,HK, Mainland on a regular basis than them Chinks, what if PH Govt. give them a dose of their own meds as well...

This is absurd and for the record, they are the ones trying to push us to a corner contrary to what they are saying that we are the ones pushing them...???

What don't our Govt. ask for an local and International News Coverage of the issue in Scarborough shoal and then let's send our Filipino fishermen inside the shoal to fish and stand by, like how they do it... We should be the one baiting/ provoking them to fire the first shots in this kind of way and not us afraid of them, for we have a bigger stick behind us and we are purely just exercising our rights in our territory.
"Some are just lucky that they're not under oath and are not classified!"- Blue badge
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Analyst
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AVBsupersonic
May 11 2012, 03:25 AM
Tsukiyomi
May 11 2012, 01:04 AM
OK so now in the earliest articles coming out of China, travel agencies were directed to essentially shut down tours and such but then later the subsequent articles say that the government did not direct the shutdowns yet the shutdowns are taking place...

The question is: Is this shutdown part of an attempt to punish the Philippines by cutting back on tourists and getting it's "message" across OR is this a step in preparing for an actual conflict and minimizing the number of non-official Chinese citizens in country?

This alone should be raising a red flag in the US PACOM as it has a dual purpose.  If the big brains haven't already..I hope they are sending us a few ships to be very very close by.

So looking at the shutdown of travel from a punitive economic measure, it is almost worthless as Chinese tourists do not bring in anywhere near the same amount of revenue as say Korean, Japanese or even western tourists.  Many in the hotel and travel industry have stated they are not exactly overwhelmed by the profit margins when dealing with Chinese.

Then there is what is starting to shape up as the great Fruit blockade...  Who is really hurting in that one?

I certainly hope we don't waste a moment and begin to ban all Chinese products as I know damn well it is going to hurt them a hell of alot more than us.  The last few items I bought from the mainland were complete crap and I will not be buying any more of their shiite anyway.

Finally where is the apology from anyone in the Chinese government or from that news agency over the serious media gaffe..if it indeed was a "accident".

i think we bring more Filipino Tourist to Macau,HK, Mainland on a regular basis than them Chinks, what if PH Govt. give them a dose of their own meds as well...

This is absurd and for the record, they are the ones trying to push us to a corner contrary to what they are saying that we are the ones pushing them...???

What don't our Govt. ask for an local and International News Coverage of the issue in Scarborough shoal and then let's send our Filipino fishermen inside the shoal to fish and stand by, like how they do it... We should be the one baiting/ provoking them to fire the first shots in this kind of way and not us afraid of them, for we have a bigger stick behind us and we are purely just exercising our rights in our territory.

I emailed 21 senators (in some reason I can't contact the other two) that they should deploy a ship to Scarborough packed with International media + live coverage.
Speaking in behalf of the Filipino people.
If you don't want a modern and capable AFP, you might want to get the f*ck off the Philippines because you don't deserve to be a Filipino that's why!
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paratorpe
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Propaganda and bullying, why dont they take the first shot on the civi ship so the world would know how the new Chinese Imperial military behaves and if not taken care of earlier would pose danger to the world like the imperial japanese during WW2.
Modernization should prioritize:

Patrol Ships with air/sub/ship detection, fast & lightly armed for Navy.
Surface Attack Aircraft with anti ship/sub attack capability for Airforce.
SAM with Radars, Close AA battery capable of shooting ground targets too for Army.
This triangle defense will work together and protect us from external threats.
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zwahzhal
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NAKU NAMAN, Gov. Mandanas!!! Do you know and understand what you're saying? Do you know how many years have PH govt have been deceived by the Chi's regarding the "friendly" diplomacy of the Scarborough and Spratly's issue? Tumahimik ka nalang, pwede. Masyado kang publicity. Ayusin mo nalang ang Batangas at yung jueteng, and yung 10-digit lotteng dyan... talamak parin lalo na sa Balayan! YUN ANG IBUWAG MO
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Parastriker
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China wouldn't take that stance as much as possible. Firing the first shot didn't exactly went well with the imperial Japs.

But, hey, :btt: :btt: :btt:
Success through information, victory through disinformation.

"Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers."

"Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar."
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