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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (155,960 Views)
AZKALS
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Xwolf
Apr 18 2012, 03:12 PM
I really don't want a 1 liner response.. but i cant help it.  :drunk: 

SCREW YOU CHINA!
(just letting off some steam)

Now what our dear ambassador from geylandchink has finally spoken only points out that his intelligence (his I.Q.) is really way low that he is only proving that they don�t have a ground to stand on the issue.


The Chinese ambassador is a 'HER' and 'SHE' ... :lollol:


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astro_boy2005
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icefrog
Apr 18 2012, 03:46 AM
How about if we buy, buy and not just talk, talk!!

Release more funds!!

Talk Talk Talk by the Government officials coz they are still calculating how much tongpats they are going to earn per project. Buy Buy Buy later when the tongpats are already millions of USD shared by a few of them.

Kawawang inang bayan, na-rape na ang dagat at inabuso pa ang likas na yaman.
:btt:
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Mckoyzzz
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Apology Mods for a bit long post but it was a nice read...


The dispute over Scarborough Shoal — Jose Mario Dolor de Vega
Sideviews - The Malaysian Insider April 18, 2012

APRIL 18 — I am writing in reference to the stand-off between the Philippines and China last week in relation to the dispute and ownership of the Spratly islands.

The pertinent facts of this latest confrontation are not in dispute.

According to the Associate Press:”A Philippine warship attempted to arrest several Chinese fishermen accused of illegal entry and poaching, but was prevented by the arrival of two Chinese surveillance ships. One of the Chinese ships blocked the entrance to a lagoon at the shoal, where at least eight Chinese fishing vessels were anchored. The Chinese ships also ordered the Philippine warship to leave Scarborough, claiming Chinese sovereignty over the rich fishing ground. But the warship has stayed put, arguing it is Philippine territory.”

Hence, due this volatile and fragile situation, diplomats from the two countries concern are scrambling to resolve the impasse.

It is my firm contention and considered view that the most appropriate way and reasonable manner of settling this dispute and claim of ownership must be lodge to the International Court of Justice.

Based on International Law, this sensitive case is so impressed not only with regional peace and stability, but most importantly of both human and universal interest.

The ICJ, without a doubt, has the exclusive jurisdiction to resolve this matter of great and grave concern.

The crucial issues that the Court will address and finally pass judgment will be the following:

a) Who among the different claimants and disputants has the superior right with regard to the possession of the said group of islands?

b) Who has the exclusive and/or the collective owner(s) of the same?

c) The judicial act of giving, handling and granting custody, possession and jurisdiction to the rightful and legal owner(s).

My legal contention is in conformity with the thesis advanced by V. Thomas: “Tensions between China and the Philippines rose when the Philippines challenged China's claims of exclusive rights and sovereignty over the Spratlys. These islands are reportedly rich in gas, oil and other mineral deposits. China, the Philippines, Taiwan, Brunei, Vietnam and Malaysia have all made claims to them.

“It could turn into a regional hot spot unless a diplomatic way is found to defuse the tension, such as by sharing the resources or, better still, if all the claimant countries refer the dispute to the International Court of Justice in the Netherlands.

“Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia have availed themselves of the court's international law expertise to settle territorial disputes.

“The court's judgment was accepted in good faith by all and this has raised its stature.”

It is my fervent hope that after the ruling of the Court, all the contestants, parties-in-interests, and disputants to this issue will respect and abide by the decision and thereby secure the peace and harmony that the region and the whole world justly deserve.

Indeed, “it is better to settle territorial disputes with the court than opt for war”. A military confrontation or an armed hostility would be against the interest of humanity.

However, having said and laid down this humble suggestion in the hope of reasonably, peacefully and diplomatically adjudicating and resolving the problem, it is sad and unfortunate to state that China with her full might and vast power is doing acts and postures which undeniably are detrimental and indeed prejudicial to regional peace!

Do I have to list down here their series of historical confrontations with the other disputants with regard to these islands through the years?

China always invoked their so-called historical right to the said islands by virtue of the fact that it is located at the South China Sea.

This is not only a preposterous and outrageous idea, but definitely ridiculous! If we will follow the “logic” of this argument, that is if a reasonable mind could even construe it as an argument its conclusions would be that technically the whole of those islands and countries of Southeast Asia are domains and properties of China.

And if the world will sanction this myopic position of China, then it will serve as a precedent that will empower India to say and assert that all those islands and countries that lie in the Indian Ocean based on their own historical right righteously belongs to it! This is utterly laughable to the core!

A Philippine newspaper reported on April 13 that: “The government has stated that it is prepared to protect the sovereign integrity of the shoal which, at 124 nautical miles off Zambales, is well within the 200-mile exclusive economic zone. In comparison, China is some 500 nautical miles from Scarborough Shoal.”

The pertinent question here is, given this irrefutable facts and undeniable proof, does China have the moral and the legal right to claim the said group of islands, solely on the dubious ground that those islands lies on the sea which contains their name?

On this juncture, may I refer the attention of the public to the article of Chow How Ban, “The Philippines and China in troubled waters”, The Star, April 14. The author stated in no ambiguous term the following remarkable words:

“Tension is rising in the South China Sea. China’s navy is ready to hit back if a clash between several Chinese fishing boats and a Filipino naval vessel in the waters of Huangyan Island cannot be resolved diplomatically, Chinese patriots have been flooding the media with provocative comments stating that they are ready to go to war.”

China’s navy is ready to hit back, the question is: Who hit first? The Philippine warship was within their countries exclusive economic zone, while China is 500 nautical miles away from their home. Who was the aggressor and the invader here?

The Filipinos since day one have always resorted consistently to maximize the diplomatic channel and agreeable for the ICJ to assume jurisdiction!

Question: Will China voluntary submit its claim to the jurisdiction of the ICJ?

Chinese patriots are flooding the media with their provocative calls that they are ready for war.

Commentaries: This is the same thing that the Japanese war-freaks did during 1929 to 1932 when they are emerging then as a global imperial power. We all know what they did to China then and the rest of the Southeast Asian countries. Is the author implying that China is now the new Japan?

I vehemently condemn the provocative position taken by the writer which borders on arrogance and pure ignorance.

Because there is a problem the solution is war?

Does he put into consideration how the world will receive this latest impending military fiasco?

Does it mean that the UN and the Asean will simply just keep their mouths shut while China is conducting war on the Philippines and/or Vietnam?

How about the global bar of public opinion of the international community? Does it mean that they will just sit back and enjoy watching from a distance this newest version of the battle between David and Goliath?

I do not think so!

As V. Thomas stated:”Should the dispute worsen, the solidarity of Asean members could be tested, apart from endangering the Zone of Peace, Freedom and Neutrality concept, which is a principle accepted by all major military powers to keep Southeast Asia free from conflict.

“Asean members, noting the danger of the dispute should initiate a move, with the support of China and Taiwan, to refer the matter to the court.”

Again, I reiterate that the immediate way to facilitate the prompt resolution of this dispute is for all parties concern to voluntarily submit their contention to the jurisdiction of the ICJ. That is the right and the moral thing to do!

However, if I may again call the attention of the public to the unwise and unfortunate words of Chow How Ban: “China attaches great importance to friendly ties with countries around South China Sea but a recent altercation between Chinese fishermen and the Philippine navy in the disputed Huangyan Island may turn into a full-scale war.”

Commentaries: Wow! Reading these words I thought I was inside the movie house watching a typical Hollywood film about military hostility and armed confrontation.

Question: Is this a warning to us? Are you threatening us?

Reply: To that writer of war of scenario and to the whole of the Chinese empire, may I remind you that we may be small as compare to your hugeness, we may be a dwarf as compare to your gigantic size, we may be poor, as compare to your economy but our people, the Filipino people are not weak, our people have character and strength.

That was precisely shown and exemplified in action in conjunction with our latest showdown when we stood our ground, stayed put and dared you!

Don’t forget that we are the first country in Asia to overthrow a foreign power and declare a republic!

During World War II, we stood and fought the Japanese Imperial Army from day one up to the end!

We fought a dictator for more than two decades and had two revolutions. In fact, when your people tried to copied our own 1986 revolution in 1988 at Tiannamen Square, your government viciously crackdown on the people and the students who led the same!

Hence, do not take us lightly, in the same vein that we are not taking you for granted, too.

We may be small, yet we are capable of inflicting damage to you too!

As a Filipino writer puts it so succinctly, Jose Ma. Montelibano, Philippine Daily Inquirer, April 13: “China may risk killing some of us but it will find too costly to kill millions of us”.

Lastly, I am not threatening you, but warning you that we have our history of courage and greatness, too.

Hence, I implore China to learn from history: do not ever forget the lessons of the Battle of Thermopylae.

It is always the case that the tiniest of the dust often cause the greatest irritation and discomfort to the biggest bloody eyes! Again, we are also warning you!

* Jose Mario Dolor de Vega reads The Malaysian Insider.

* This is the personal opinion of the writer or publication. The Malaysian Insider does not endorse the view unless specified.


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Mckoyzzz
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Russia's South China Sea Exploration complicates matters even more
Written by Khanh Vu Duc | Friday, 13 April 2012


Speculation that the South China Sea disputes will lead to conflict are not beyond the realm of possibility, given the numerous military clashes between several countries in the region over the past 40 years. The primary belligerents are familiar: China, the Philippines, and Vietnam have at one point exchanged punches against the other; although as of late the latter two have united by mutual agreement in their opposition against China.

A dispute between China and the Philippines has dragged on this week, beginning when Manila's biggest warship attempted to arrest Chinese fishermen accused of illegal entry to Scarborough Shoal off the Northwestern Philippine coast. Three Chinese warships responded, ordering the Filipino vessel to leave and claiming Chinese sovereignty. Chinese and Filipino diplomats have been attempting to resolve the dispute peacefully.

As these disputes grow beyond territorial possessions to include the vast, untapped natural resources of the sea, so too do the parties involved. Last year India ventured into the South China Sea to explore resources alongside Vietnam, much to the chagrin of China. Now Russia has joined the fray, adding to Beijing’s growing headache despite China's best efforts to limit the number of nations involved in the region. OAO Gazprom, the world’s biggest natural-gas producer, plans to develop two blocks with PetroVietnam, which takes 49 percent of a joint venture project while PetroVietnam holds the majority share, according to Bloomberg, which reported that PetroVietnam and Gazprom are already exploring for oil and gas together offshore.

With the inclusion of India, Russia, and, of course, the United States, it therefore seems unlikely that the South China Sea disputes will lead to conflict—at least with not any of these countries listed. China will not so recklessly engage in armed conflict with countries whose arsenal includes nuclear deterrence capabilities, never mind that they are not claimant states in the maritime and territorial disputes themselves. They are simply not worth the effort. China may, however, flex its muscles with a less capable nation.

Vietnam most likely to be targeted


With Vietnam and the Philippines most opposed to China, should military conflict arise from the disputes, Vietnam is the most likely to bear the brunt of China’s ire.

Despite the escalating rhetoric and displays of force on the part of the Philippines, China is unlikely to do more against the country than it has already done in the past. The Mutual Defense Treaty between the US and Philippines makes any engagement between China and the latter unwise, as it would probably invite American intervention. As China wishes to keep the US out of the South China Sea, an attack on the Philippines would be unappealing. Similarly, as military conflict is far from the desires of the US, Washington has perhaps stressed to Manila the need to restrain itself.

With the Philippines out of the question, China has but only one foe in reach.

Vietnam has neither a defense treaty with the US nor the open sea for a natural barrier. It shares a border with China, which has in the past served as the frontlines of skirmishes and the Sino-Vietnamese War. There is little love lost between these two neighbors; and if Vietnam and China had ever shared good relations, they have now surely deteriorated.

Neither India nor Russia, an ally during the Soviet era, will rush blindly to defend Vietnam if it is attacked, risking unnecessary confrontation with China. Although India has been public in their partnership with Vietnam for resource exploration, Russia’s recent involvement has raised questions concerning its motives.

While Vietnam may be able to count on material support from their new friends if necessary, but they cannot expect help in the way the US would intervene for the Philippines. The sobering and grim reality for Hanoi is that, of all the claimant states involved in the disputes, it is the most exposed to China. Vietnam must therefore walk a fine line between appeasing nationalist sentiments and maintaining a working relationship with China.

Indonesia: A mediating role

Divergent interests of claimant states and third parties (such as the US and India) in the South China Sea make difficult a peaceful resolution. However, if the sea can be pacified, it requires a neutral third party acceptable to all states involved.

It is unlikely that the United States would play such a role, if any, in resolving these disputes given China’s insistence on not internationalizing the issue, and its misgivings over any American presence in the region. It is also unlikely that the United Nations would be able to assist for the same reasons. As such, a “neutral” third party may not be entirely neutral; however, its word must carry weight, and it must been seen to be impartial enough by all those involved.

Indonesia, a claimant state, has so far remained somewhat above the fray. It has not engaged in the same heated rhetoric against China as the Philippines or Vietnam. Of all the claimant states, it is the most populous and possesses the largest economy after China; and, as with China, its demand for energy will only increase over time. It is a founding member of ASEAN and the most recent host of the ASEAN Summit and East Asian Summit.

Indonesia has thus far refused to openly support China or the Philippines and Vietnam, which has allowed it to remain fairly neutral. Although Indonesia has claims to waters around its Natuna Islands, which are also claimed by China and Taiwan, it does not have a stake in the more contentious Spratlys. Furthermore, Indonesia has strong ties with China and the US, both of which are important commercial and economic partners.

Indonesia is ideally suited to play a mediating role if required; however, it remains to be seen if China wishes to step away from its insistence on bilateral resolutions.

Chinese influence over states like the Philippines and Vietnam is minimal; and as tensions in the region continue to rise, China may and should privately seek outside assistance. China has much to lose in any sort of conflict, if only because any war is an unnecessary burden on a burgeoning economy. While Beijing is unlikely to choose a course of action in which it risks losing face, it would not overlook the benefits of stabilizing the South China Sea, even if stabilization is simply maintaining the status quo—India and Russia included.

(Khanh Vu Duc is a Vietnamese Canadian lawyer in Ottawa, focusing on various areas of law. He researches on International Relations and International Law.)

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spearhead
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^^The makes a lot of sense. 2 interesting articles!

I wonder though, if the Philippine Sea is a jurisdiction of RP territorial waters or an international?

I never expectrd china to invade the philippines though. The least they could do is to torpedo the PF15 or sink it with an airborne Anti-Ship missile. But still they would never risk it.

Yes i agree, Vietnam indeed is in fact are the greater threat to china in WPS. And china would not be that brilliant to attack the philippines or neither invade it. All what china need to do to shut the philippines is a mere submarine, guarding the PN's most capable warship so far that has no true ASW capability. Even 2-3 chinese maritima surveillance ships are enough to monitor the PF15 just in case they attack vietnam again.

Still, we dont wanna fire the first shot nor a warning shot. Let's wait for any capable real warships and MRF first before we start firing some warning shots over those disputed shoals or reefs. Kabibili palang naman kasi ng PF15 so tsaka na, wag muna itong sayangin.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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spearhead
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PHL rejects China’s historical claim to Panatag Shoal
April 18, 2012 8:18pm

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/25540...o-panatag-shoal

PHL to take Panatag Shoal dispute with China to international court
ANDREO C. CALONZO, GMA NEWS April 17, 2012 1:36pm

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/25521...rnational-court

Palace wants to settle Spratlys dispute first before joint exploration with China
BY AMITA O. LEGASPI, GMA NEWS April 18, 2012 5:30pm

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/25537...tion-with-china
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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spearhead
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3 MORE CHINESE FISHING BOATS RETURNED TO PANATAG SHOAL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBDZdDRBPoc

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBDZdDRBPoc[/YOUTUBE]

:armyfrown:
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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fernandez705
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to the goverment:
instead of our fisherman making a living out of that place its being exploited by the chinese who has no rights.
so let me ask you all is this not a good time to increase our modernization budget huh huh :headbang:
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Mckoyzzz
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DND: China bullying Philippines
By Alexis Romero (The Philippine Star) Updated April 19, 2012 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - “How can an ant bully an elephant?”

This was how Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin reacted to China’s claim that Filipino sailors had harassed Chinese fishermen in Scarborough Shoal, which the Philippines calls Panatag Shoal.

In a phone patch interview with defense reporters, Gazmin said Filipinos should make it known that it’s the Philippines that is being bullied by China.

“The people should know that what the government is doing is for the benefit of each Filipino. The people should help so the world would know that we are being bullied,” Gazmin said. “We should instill in the people the need to love our country by supporting the government’s stand right now against China.”


Navy chief Vice Adm. Alexander Pama said that while his men are on alert, he hopes the standoff in Scarborough will end peacefully.

“The sooner (the standoff is resolved) the better,” he said in a separate interview.

<clipped>...

“In the case of Bajo de Masinloc, the Philippines has exercised both effective occupation and effective jurisdiction over (it) since its independence. The name Bajo de Masinloc (translated as ‘under Masinloc’) itself identifies the shoal as a particular political subdivision of the Philippine province of Zambales, known as Masinloc,” the DFA said in a report.

“Bajo de Masinloc is not an island. Bajo de Masinloc is also not part of the Spratlys. Obviously therefore, the rocks of Bajo de Masinloc are also within the 200-nautical mile EEZ and 200-nautical mile continental shelf of the Philippines,” the DFA said in the report.

One of the earliest known and most accurate maps of the area, Carta Hydrographical y Chorographica de Las Yslas Filipinas by Fr. Pedro Murillo Velarde, SJ, and published in 1734, included Bajo de Masinloc as part of Zambales.

No dent on relations

Malacañang, for its part, said much has yet to be achieved in the negotiations on the dispute in the whole of the West Philippine Sea but that these should not affect other aspects of Philippines-China relations...

<clipped>

Left hits China

It’s China and not the Philippines which should leave Panatag Shoal, Bayan Muna Rep. Teddy Casiño said yesterday.

“They entered our territory, fished in our waters and they should be the ones who should leave,” he said.

He made the statement in reaction to China’s demand that the Philippines abandon the disputed group of rock formations. The two sides are keeping their ships in the area.

Casiño and Bayan Muna colleague Neri Colmenares filed yesterday Resolution 2330 criticizing the latest Chinese incursion and asking China to leave the shoal.

The resolution also expresses the congressmen’s support for the government’s call for China to agree to resolve the conflict through the International Tribunal of the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

“This matter is best settled between China and the Philippines through diplomatic means and using international conventions,” Casiño said.

He suggested that aside from bringing the dispute to the ITLOS, the government, including Congress, should also assert the 2002 Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea.

He said members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and China signed the declaration to ease tensions in the region and to serve as the framework for future negotiations for resolving disputes.

Members of Bayan Muna are scheduled to picket the Chinese embassy today to protest against China’s incursions...

<clipped>

Spratlys solution

For the dispute over Spratlys, Sen. Ralph Recto said the government should consider engaging China not through diplomatic protests, but through a possible joint exploration agreement.

“Every standoff, the territorial tension only escalates and we’re not gaining anything - zero. We could pursue a different tack by working out a possible joint exploration without impinging on our sovereignty,” Recto said in a statement.

Recto, a member of the Senate national defense and security and of foreign relations committees, said the country should not expect full support from ASEAN since its members are also trading with China.

“I’m not saying that we backtrack from our claim. In fact, we should do it relentlessly. But while the natural finds of Spratlys lay underneath, idle and untapped, a joint exploration appears to be the more logical engagement with China,” Recto said.

-With Pia Lee-Brago, Aurea Calica, Evelyn Macairan, Ding Cervantes, Christina Mendez, Jess Diaz

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Mckoyzzz
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SEC. GAZMIN PLEADING FOR THE NATION'S AND ALL FILIPINOS' SUPPORT ON THE SCARBOROUGH DISPUTE

Filipinos are being oppressed in Scarborough Shoal dispute
By Frances Mangosing | INQUIRER.net
5:42 pm | Wednesday, April 18th, 2012


MANILA, Philippines—Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin on Wednesday called on Filipinos to support the Philipines’ stand on Panatag or the Scarborough Shoal, the disputed waters between China and Philippines.

“Kinakailangan lang talagang malaman ng mga tao na itong ginagawa ng gobyerno ay para sa kapakanan ng bawat Pilipino so that kinakailangang tumulong ang mga tao upang sa ganun malaman ng buong mundo na tayo ay naaapi (We need to inform the public that what we’re doing is for the welfare of [our fellow] Filipinos and we need to help each other so the world will know we’re the ones being oppressed [by the Chinese],” he told reporters in a phone interview.

Gazmin said the support is a way of showing love for country.


The Philippines has reiterated its claim over Panatag Shoal, saying it was located 124 nautical miles west of Zambales, which is within the 200 nautical miles of exclusive economic zone.

Responding to alleged claims that the Philippines is the one oppressing China, Gazmin said in Filipino, “How would an ant oppress an elephant?”

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