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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (155,968 Views)
astro_boy2005
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ayoshi
Apr 14 2012, 04:17 PM
TonyStark2020
Apr 14 2012, 03:48 PM

Kaya tuloy wala tayong boses at ang trato at tingin sa atin ng ibang bansa sa mundo ay napakaliit na para lang tayong mga BASURA at PINAGLALARUAN lang..
Nasaan napunta ang pinag-mamalaking lahing Filipino ni Gen Mac Arthur na with just a 1000 Filipino Soldiers can conquer the World???


Sir I think its 10,000 filipino soldiers not 1000? anyway you are right this is a lesson to our government and military. I hope next time they can have a so called anti-dote to this new tactics of PLAN / China.

The only solution they should have made was a quick arrest the moment they saw these fishing vessels raping our EEZ.

Could you imagine that there was 12 Chinese Vessels and not even 1 was confiscated. Would have been better if they let them all go but at least confiscated the corals and sharks.

I sympathize to all of the members here who got pissed off the way the RP handled this situation. This wont be the last, until we toughen our stand and act decisively.

What's the use of another WHEC? Even the coast guard that was being sent just wondered and watched all of these fishing vessels leave. Such a waste of fuel and resources and in the end letting them all go one by one.

Kaya kahit saan lugar at bansa tayo pumunta, mababa ang tingin sa atin ng mga tao at inaalipusta tayo at binababoy. Wala kseng bayag ang gobyerno natin, walang matibay na paninindigan. Importante lang para sa kanila maiuwi ang nakaw para bago matapos ang isang termino, milyonaryo na din sila. :thumbsdown:
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astro_boy2005
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Mckoyzzz
Apr 14 2012, 04:40 PM
To all the guys who didn't liked the outcome of the standoff... can you please provide your own realistic/doable suggestions on what do you think was the best thing to do (by the PH government and military) or what the government should have done... right from beginning of the standoff and how you'd like it to end? please include the pros and cons and the consequences...

McKoyzz, Im not an expert with this but in my opinion we should have acted swiftly. Ang problema kse natin masyado tayong mabagal.

Secondly, dapat din meron tayong "balls" and "decisive concrete actions" hindi yung itatawag pa sa DFA at sa PN headquarters kung ano gagawin. Kung ikaw ang kapitan dapat ahora mismo magdesisyun ka na kse its your call.

So in the end, pag papatay-patay ka talagang aabutan ka ng reinforcement galing sa china. At kahit pa gaano ka sophisticated ang PN at PCG kung wala kang "balls" para i-implement ang batas natin wala din mangyayari.

Salamat po. Eto lamang ang aking opinion.
:salute:
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Mckoyzzz
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Below is the ASEAN Declaration of the Code of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea signed in 2002...

This may shed us some light on the outcome of the standoff...

Quote:
 
DECLARATION ON THE CONDUCT OF PARTIES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA


The Governments of the Member States of ASEAN and the Government of the People's Republic of China,

REAFFIRMING their determination to consolidate and develop the friendship and cooperation existing between their people and governments with the view to promoting a 21st century-oriented partnership of good neighbourliness and mutual trust;

COGNIZANT of the need to promote a peaceful, friendly and harmonious environment in the South China Sea between ASEAN and China for the enhancement of peace, stability, economic growth and prosperity in the region;

COMMITTED to enhancing the principles and objectives of the 1997 Joint Statement of the Meeting of the Heads of State/Government of the Member States of ASEAN and President of the People's Republic of China;

DESIRING to enhance favourable conditions for a peaceful and durable solution of differences and disputes among countries concerned;

HEREBY DECLARE the following:

1. The Parties reaffirm their commitment to the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, and other universally recognized principles of international law which shall serve as the basic norms governing state-to-state relations;

2. The Parties are committed to exploring ways for building trust and confidence in accordance with the above-mentioned principles and on the basis of equality and mutual respect;

3. The Parties reaffirm their respect for and commitment to the freedom of navigation in and overflight above the South China Sea as provided for by the universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea;

4. The Parties concerned undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea;

5. The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.


Pending the peaceful settlement of territorial and jurisdictional disputes, the Parties concerned undertake to intensify efforts to seek ways, in the spirit of cooperation and understanding, to build trust and confidence between and among them, including:

a. holding dialogues and exchange of views as appropriate between their defense and military officials;

b. ensuring just and humane treatment of all persons who are either in danger or in distress;

c. notifying, on a voluntary basis, other Parties concerned of any impending joint/combined  military exercise; and

d. exchanging, on a voluntary basis, relevant information.

6. Pending a comprehensive and durable settlement of the disputes, the Parties concerned may explore or undertake cooperative activities. These may include the following:

a. marine environmental protection;
b. marine scientific research;
c. safety of navigation and communication at sea;
d. search and rescue operation; and
e. combating transnational crime, including but not limited to trafficking in illicit drugs, piracy and armed robbery at sea, and illegal traffic in arms.

The modalities, scope and locations, in respect of bilateral and multilateral cooperation should be agreed upon by the Parties concerned prior to their actual implementation.

7. The Parties concerned stand ready to continue their consultations and dialogues concerning relevant issues, through modalities to be agreed by them, including regular consultations on the observance of this Declaration, for the purpose of promoting good neighbourliness and transparency, establishing harmony, mutual understanding and cooperation, and facilitating peaceful resolution of disputes among them;

8. The Parties undertake to respect the provisions of this Declaration and take actions consistent therewith;

9. The Parties encourage other countries to respect the principles contained in this Declaration;

10. The Parties concerned reaffirm that the adoption of a code of conduct in the South China Sea would further promote peace and stability in the region and agree to work, on the basis of consensus,  towards the eventual attainment of this objective.

          Done on the Fourth Day of November in the Year Two Thousand and Two in Phnom Penh, the Kingdom of Cambodia.
aseansec.org
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TonyStark2020
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I have given all my dapat's with regards to how the present Govt. should have handled the situation in Scarborough from my previous posts/ replies I guess, but except these incidents and all the humiliation of FILIPINOS here and abroad for the last 26 years being blinded by OLIGARCHS, the Rich businesses and Corrupt Political dynasties, monopoly all of which maybe, accused Marcos of stealing money from them and the Govt, in turn tried to get back at the the Filipino masses giving them hardships for them to hate the Marcos Govt. before, but the real truth is they where all spent back for the Country and the Filipino People through infrastructure plans and Govt. projects, now in the 26 years reign of others, let me ask all of you, WHAT HAVE THEY ACCOMPLISHED ASIDE FROM MAKING EVERY FILIPINOS FEEL LIKE TRASH TO THE WHOLE WORLD FOR THE LAST 26 YRS? it's really DEMOCRAZY!
I was in Edsa 1, but was only to find out later being blinded by the truth..

All of these would never happen under a MARCOS watch. :salute:

They should arrest that lone CH vessel left in Scarborough Shoal for intrusion if it doesn't move out of our territory and exercise our rights and sovereignty! -by doing this is proper and might save their faces... :armyfrown:
I AM NOT PINOY, "I AM A FILIPINO" There is a BiG difference!
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Ayoshi
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Quote:
 
5. The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.


Ok for the moment this answers my question in mind. So it will prohibit us to add an additional structures there because it may result to a more complicated scenario between PHL, China and other claimants.

The only solution available like other members suggest is to arrest the illegal fisherman immediately before the PLAN ships arrive to protect their fisherman from being arrested. But how about if the PLAN or surveillance ship personally escorted their fisherman while poaching inside our EEZ? what should we do about it? :dunno:
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Mckoyzzz
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TonyStark2020
Apr 14 2012, 05:23 PM
I have given all my dapat's with regards to how the present Govt. should have handled the situation in Scarborough from my previous posts/ replies I guess, but except these incidents and all the humiliation of FILIPINOS here and abroad for the last 26 years being blinded by OLIGARCHS, the Rich businesses and Corrupt Political dynasties, monopoly all of which maybe, accused Marcos of stealing money from them and the Govt, in turn tried to get back at the the Filipino masses giving them hardships for them to hate the Marcos Govt. before, but the real truth is they where all spent back for the Country and the Filipino People through infrastructure plans and Govt. projects, now in the 26 years reign of others, let me ask all of you, WHAT HAVE THEY ACCOMPLISHED ASIDE FROM MAKING EVERY FILIPINOS FEEL LIKE TRASH TO THE WHOLE WORLD FOR THE LAST 26 YRS? it's really DEMOCRAZY!
I was in Edsa 1, but was only to find out later being blinded by the truth..

All of these would never happen under a MARCOS watch. :salute:

They should arrest that lone CH vessel left in Scarborough Shoal for intrusion if it doesn't move out of our territory and exercise our rights and sovereignty! -by doing this is proper and might save their faces... :armyfrown:

bro, I know you're upset but just take an extra care on your posts... mods are watching...
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Mckoyzzz
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My stand on this as I've mentioned in my later posts, was that the PN/PCG shouldn't have let those fishermen near Scarborough shoal... they should have blocked them (or arrested them) even before they were miles away from the shoal... (prevention is still better than cure)... but because the lacked the necessary equipments/hardwares, they were not able to...

now that they haven't prevented it, I believe PH and CH were left no choice but turned into diplomacy, sat it down in dialogues and bring out the powerful weapon of laws and codes... which of course, is more complicated than what it seemed from our point of view...
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TonyStark2020
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Mckoyzzz
Apr 14 2012, 05:13 PM
Below is the ASEAN Declaration of the Code of Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea signed in 2002...

This may shed us some light on the outcome of the standoff...

Quote:
 
DECLARATION ON THE CONDUCT OF PARTIES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA


The Governments of the Member States of ASEAN and the Government of the People's Republic of China,

REAFFIRMING their determination to consolidate and develop the friendship and cooperation existing between their people and governments with the view to promoting a 21st century-oriented partnership of good neighbourliness and mutual trust;

COGNIZANT of the need to promote a peaceful, friendly and harmonious environment in the South China Sea between ASEAN and China for the enhancement of peace, stability, economic growth and prosperity in the region;

COMMITTED to enhancing the principles and objectives of the 1997 Joint Statement of the Meeting of the Heads of State/Government of the Member States of ASEAN and President of the People's Republic of China;

DESIRING to enhance favourable conditions for a peaceful and durable solution of differences and disputes among countries concerned;

HEREBY DECLARE the following:

1. The Parties reaffirm their commitment to the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation in Southeast Asia, the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, and other universally recognized principles of international law which shall serve as the basic norms governing state-to-state relations;

2. The Parties are committed to exploring ways for building trust and confidence in accordance with the above-mentioned principles and on the basis of equality and mutual respect;

3. The Parties reaffirm their respect for and commitment to the freedom of navigation in and overflight above the South China Sea as provided for by the universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea;

4. The Parties concerned undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea;

5. The Parties undertake to exercise self-restraint in the conduct of activities that would complicate or escalate disputes and affect peace and stability including, among others, refraining from action of inhabiting on the presently uninhabited islands, reefs, shoals, cays, and other features and to handle their differences in a constructive manner.


Pending the peaceful settlement of territorial and jurisdictional disputes, the Parties concerned undertake to intensify efforts to seek ways, in the spirit of cooperation and understanding, to build trust and confidence between and among them, including:

a. holding dialogues and exchange of views as appropriate between their defense and military officials;

b. ensuring just and humane treatment of all persons who are either in danger or in distress;

c. notifying, on a voluntary basis, other Parties concerned of any impending joint/combined  military exercise; and

d. exchanging, on a voluntary basis, relevant information.

6. Pending a comprehensive and durable settlement of the disputes, the Parties concerned may explore or undertake cooperative activities. These may include the following:

a. marine environmental protection;
b. marine scientific research;
c. safety of navigation and communication at sea;
d. search and rescue operation; and
e. combating transnational crime, including but not limited to trafficking in illicit drugs, piracy and armed robbery at sea, and illegal traffic in arms.

The modalities, scope and locations, in respect of bilateral and multilateral cooperation should be agreed upon by the Parties concerned prior to their actual implementation.

7. The Parties concerned stand ready to continue their consultations and dialogues concerning relevant issues, through modalities to be agreed by them, including regular consultations on the observance of this Declaration, for the purpose of promoting good neighbourliness and transparency, establishing harmony, mutual understanding and cooperation, and facilitating peaceful resolution of disputes among them;

8. The Parties undertake to respect the provisions of this Declaration and take actions consistent therewith;

9. The Parties encourage other countries to respect the principles contained in this Declaration;

10. The Parties concerned reaffirm that the adoption of a code of conduct in the South China Sea would further promote peace and stability in the region and agree to work, on the basis of consensus,  towards the eventual attainment of this objective.

          Done on the Fourth Day of November in the Year Two Thousand and Two in Phnom Penh, the Kingdom of Cambodia.
aseansec.org

Bro Mck,

The problem is China never will abide by these rules of conduct because if they were, incidents that happened with the US, Japan, Vietnam and Philippines against harassment(s) by China over sea disputes and right of passage through SCS and it's illegally claiming the whole SCS including EEZs of Neighbouring Countries.

This is just a Bull paper from them really.. sad to say! :armyroleyes:

That is why it's really much better for us and for our Govt. to step up their pedal on full throttle, pull one of their old LST their for Marine shelter temporarily and set up a structure to fortify our claim just like in their "Chinese book" if we really say that Scarborough shoal is rightfully ours, meaning we have ALL the RIGHTS.

If there will be any hostile reaction from them, it's their call.. WE ARE JUST DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY AND TERRITORY! :patrioticpinoy:
I AM NOT PINOY, "I AM A FILIPINO" There is a BiG difference!
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Ayoshi
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DECLARATION ON THE CONDUCT OF PARTIES IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA
Year 2002

http://www.aseansec.org/13163.htm

Chair’s Statement of the 19th ASEAN Summit Bali, 17 November 2011

http://www.aseansec.org/documents/19th%20summit/CS.pdf
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Mckoyzzz
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PDFF Mod Group
TonyStark2020
Apr 14 2012, 05:48 PM
Bro Mck,

The problem is China never will abide by these rules of conduct because if they were, incidents that happened with the US, Japan, Vietnam and Philippines against harassment(s) by China over sea disputes and right of passage through SCS and it's illegally claiming the whole SCS including EEZs of Neighbouring Countries.

This is just a Bull paper from them really.. sad to say! :armyroleyes:

That is why it's really much better for us and for our Govt. to step up their pedal on full throttle, pull one of their old LST their for Marine shelter temporarily and set up a structure to fortify our claim just like in their "Chinese book" if we really say that Scarborough shoal is rightfully ours, meaning we have ALL the RIGHTS.

If there will be any hostile reaction from them, it's their call.. WE ARE JUST DEFENDING OUR COUNTRY AND TERRITORY! :patrioticpinoy:

Don't get me wrong... I'm in favor of installing a shelter of some sort in Scarborough shoal... however, Chinese are experts in propaganda (they think like the North Korean s in some way)...

They "do not" (or probably walking along the thin lines (loop holes) outside of violating it completely) follow the rules of law they themselves signed (they resort to aggressive/bullying tactics and behaviors) but if other signee "violates" these laws, they will accused you of haphazardly violating these laws, and will try to squeeze you out of anything for their (Chinese) own gain... they're really good at it

If the Philippines erected a shelter there, expect a rain of protests/accusations from China... maybe that's why the Philippines did not bother doing so in the mean time in respect to this law...

Kakaiba mag isip ang Tsina... they mostly think of themselves alone for their own gains...
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