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The Kalayaan, Panatag & other disputed islands; Future conflict zones?
Topic Started: Feb 2 2005, 08:00 PM (155,974 Views)
TonyStark2020
Member
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Philippines should ask US help on Scarborough standoff

By Maila Ager
INQUIRER.net
4:21 pm | Wednesday, April 11th, 2012

Quote:
 
MANILA, Philippines—A senator on Wednesday said the Philippines should seek the help of the United States and other allies if a tense standoff with China in the Scarborough Shoal escalates, saying the country has no military capability to assert its sovereignty.
“This is a wake up call. Now is the time to test our regional alliances. We should now ask the US what we should do now that China is asking us to leave (the disputed waters),” Senator Gregorio Honasan said in an interview over the phone.
“Can we now invoke the Mutual Defense Treaty or other treaties?” the former  colonel said.
“We should now ask the US: What do you suggest we do? Let’s ask the US, do you want us to give this up already para hindi na rin kayo makadaan?” Honasan asked.
Without the support of the US and other allied countries, Honasan said the Philippines should not engage in a military confrontation with China.
“Dahan-dahan tayo diyan baka iyong kaisa-isa nating barko na Gregorio del Pilar, baka in one swoop maubos,” the senator said in response to Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario’s statement that the Philippines is ready to defend its sovereignty if challenged by China.
“We can’t risk a military confrontation there. We can’t gamble all our or part of our naval assets in one motion. I-exhaust natin itong diplomatic means through our so-called our regional alliances.”
“It’s very difficult to enforce our sovereign will. How do you that against China? Yung US nga nagdadahan-dahan sa China, tayo pa?” Honasan further asked.
The Philippines, he said, has no other option but to seek the help of the US and other allied nations
“Our message is clear but we don’t seem to have a capability to back it up. So all we can do now is buy time, file diplomatic protest, elevate it to the international communities specially our so-called allies,” said the senator.
“Kapag isinubo natin (ang ating military) e di ubos ang military natin against China,” he further said.
Unlike Honasan, however, Senator Panfilo Lacson saw no need for the Philippines to seek the help of the US, saying the issue could still be addressed through diplomatic measures.
“Diplomatically mukhang hindi advisable na tatakbo tayo sa US, at least on an official or formal notice,” said Lacson, chairman of the Senate committee on national defense.
Lacson said China was only “posturing” when it ordered the Philippines to withdraw its warship in the disputed island.
“Siyempre magpo-project sila ng position of strength so maximum kaagad ang demand nila. That’s the art of negotiation. Talagang malakas sila. But to bully us like what they’re doing , e depende na sa atin iyon kung magpapa-bully tayo.
-Source
I AM NOT PINOY, "I AM A FILIPINO" There is a BiG difference!
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TonyStark2020
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Use the "FORCE" Luke, este PNoy pala! :armywink:

I do hope US sends a couple of destroyers in this area that they use to secure and patrol when they had base in Subic and now they are trying to claim it's theirs, since when? Why claim it now? Hope PH raise this Q to the US which during those times, knows and thinks that Scarborough shoal is definitely part of the Philippines Territory and ask China to back off..
It would be fun to see chinese and their navy soldiers if ever run like cowards. :specool:
I AM NOT PINOY, "I AM A FILIPINO" There is a BiG difference!
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spearhead
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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Dapat kasi talaga, respect each other's 200nm EEZ thats it. Now whatever goes out from that 200nm EEZ are the one to be talked out, split up para wala nang gulo. Yung china lang naman talaga ang matigas na ulo dito.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

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shoot_to_kill
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@spear china never intended to respect any maritime laws they even at one time claimed the indian ocean as their own but knowing that india would give them a bloody nose they didn't pursue it
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tendatu
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pinakawalan ba ung mga chinese poachers?
“Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory.”
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THE_NEWS_MAN
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No retreat, Navy chief assures, as BRP Gregorio del Pilar takes time to 'refuel'

ANILA, Philippines (Update 3- 4:50 p.m.) - There is no retreat and "we are not abandoning the area," the Navy chief explained Thursday afternoon, after the command's flagship BRP Gregorio del Pilar moved out of Scarborough Shoal earlier in the day to go to Poro Point, effectively demilitarizing the new flashpoint in South China Sea. This, even as a third Chinese civilian ship was spotted in the area.

Vice Admiral Alexander Pama said the vessel--the Philippines' only frigate--moved out of the area Thursday morning because it needed to restock on provisions and to refuel.

He also clarified that the move was not a "pullout," adding that the ship will restock on provisions at Poro Point in San Fernando, La Union.

"Hindi tayo aatras [There is no retreat]," Pama told reporters. "We're not abandoning the area."

The BRP del Pilar was relieved by a Coast Guard vessel that arrived this morning at Scarborough Shoal.

"This is a law enforcement matter; para hindi naman tayo mukhang siga dun let the civilian agency handle it," Pama said.

Earlier, Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario disclosed at a doorstop interview at the DFA that the BRP Gregorio del Pilar moved out of Scarborough Shoal to go to Poro Point, effectively demilitarizing the new flashpoint in South China Sea, even as a third Chinese civilian ship was spotted in the area.

He stressed, though, that the frigate has been pulled out for "operational" reasons. The country's top diplomat added that the move is not part of the diplomatic negotiations with China to ease tension in the shoal located 124 miles (220 kilometers) off Zambales. He noted that a civilian ship under the Coast Guard replaced the Navy warship.

“We pulled one out, and we replaced that one with another ship,” he said.

BRP Gregorio del Pilar left Scarborough Shoal for "reprovisioning," officials said.

Asked if the BRP Gregorio del Pilar pullout will ease tension in the area, del Rosario said: "I don't know. But the capabilities of the Coast Guard ship are not as large as those of the Navy ship."

Will it weaken the Philippine position? "I don't think so. We're working feverishly for a diplomatic solution."

Source
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THE_NEWS_MAN
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What one needs to know about the territorial dispute in the South China Sea



MANILA, Philipines - Scarborough shoal is the international reference for what the Philippines now call “Panatag” (calm), alternatively Bajo de Masinloc. Scarborough and “Pagasa” Island (hope) in the Kalayaan Island Group of the internationally-referred Spratlys Archipelago are also claimed by China, Vietnam and Taiwan. In Chinese, Scarborough is called “Huangyan Dao,” Pag-asa is known as “Zhongye Dao,” and the Spratlys as “Nansha.”

Philippine claims to Pag-asa island, which is a barangay in itself under Palawan’s jurisdiction was officially laid in 1974 when Admiral Tomas Cloma left a note there for the world to notice and the issue forwarded to the United Nations. I have seen that note and Cloma’s bust in the three times that I was privileged to fly to Pag-asa and boodle-fought with Philippine soldiers stationed in that desolate terrain.

The claim to Bajo de Masinloc was supposedly made even earlier, which was followed by a scientific exploration. Between the two areas, that with Scarborough -- proven to have rich oil and gas deposits -— is for now believed to be an even more touchy claim for the Philippines and China.

Completing the list of claimants of other reefs, atolls and sandbars in the Nansha are Brunei, Malaysia and Taiwan.

For us in the media, this 22-page English-language publication is a commendable move on the part of China. The closest I got to related literature from the Philippine side is the controversial Republic Act 9522, the Philippines Baselines Act of 2009. I was presented a draft map of Philippine territory based on those baselines that was prepared by the National Mapping and Resource Information Authority (NAMRIA), the official Philippine cartographer. I still have to actually obtain an official Chinese map that shows the dashes to its Nansha claims.

Source

im not sure if its the right tread to post this article anyway if it isnt sorry :armycheers:
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Mckoyzzz
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Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
PDFF Mod Group
Let's gather and take ALL THE FACTS first to give us some significant meat to chow on and analyze the situation to better comprehend the seriousness of the standoff issue... and also for a minute, let's forget about who owns and who has the right over Scarborough shoal. It's another matter so that we can focus on the standoff itself, shall we?...

The Standoff Scenario:
> Philippines and China both claims that the Scarborough is part of each other's territory. Because of that, both are claiming that the countries were only protecting and defending it's sovereignty.

> Both countries are accusing each other that their ships were ILLEGALLY intruding in their territory.

> NOBODY will ever give way to the other party because it will mean that they are GIVING UP their sovereignty over their claimed territory, hence the standoff...

> Now that the news was heard all over the world and been monitored, each countries credibility in asserting its claim now hangs in the balance... dahilan kung bakit nagpapatigasan ang isa't isa.

> A Philippine Navy ship, PF-15 is in toe-to-toe with "unarmed civilian" surveillance ship. Hence, China filed a protest that the Philippine military is harassing their civilian ships and fishermen... To ease the tension while still asserting the defense of our sovereignty, Pnoy lodge a statement about "gray to gray" and "white to white", and send PCG ship/s to relieve Goyo... China cannot now accuse Philippines of harassing their ships, because this is now "civilian to civilian ships"... and thus also prevents any "shooting war" that may happen and cannot give reason to China to send a fleet of its destroyers in the area to defend their "attacked" civilian ships... (and everybody knows what will happen next)


The Possible "Temporary" Solution:
> According to the ABC News bureau chief in Beijing, China will never back off nor the Philippines unless the diplomats agree into a solution...

> He said that the best possible sort of "win-win" solution is for both countries/parties to back off AT THE SAME TIME because whoever gives way FIRST, somehow "lose", meaning loses the countries credibility in defending his territory, loses in asserting its claim and mutually giving up Scarborough shoal to the other party... Once both countries back off at the same time, the dispute still remains (which can be settled in another manner), and so on..

> He also said not to get the media involved in the resolution of the standoff because "saving face" or credibility is very important to both countries... (Now, I'm not sure how are they going to do that because the news were already heard around the world, but it does makes sense)

> Involving another country in the standoff will only make matters worst. The US stated that it will not interfere and the DFA also said that the Philippines will not seek US help on this matter.


Now my stand over the case was that the PN and PCG should have NEVER let those fishermen and Chinese ships near the Scarborough shoal in the first place... They could have blocked them even before they head into the area... This shows the lack of patrol ships, surveillance aircrafts and radars on the Philippine side... China is taking advantage of this incapacities and bullying itself right through it...
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"Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong -- Dandemis"
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israeli
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Philippines, China dispatch more civilian vessels to disputed Panatag Shoal
April 12, 2012 10:44pm


The Panatag Shoal standoff remains unresolved as China and the Philippines deploy more non-military boats to the area, 230 kilometers from Zambales province, but Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario told reporters Thursday the goal is to try and resolve the dispute before the weekend.

"We are pursuing the diplomatic track in terms of coming to a resolution on the issue," said Del Rosario told reporters.

The Philippines had been hopeful of resolving the issue by Thursday, but that appeared now unlikely, according to the Philippine official.

"Yesterday, I was hopeful that we would arrive at a conclusion... I guess that didn't come about," he said.

"So I guess the next milestone is to try and get this done before the weekend."


Del Rosario, who has been leading the negotiations for the Philippines, heads overseas this weekend on official business.

<snipped>

The Philippine Navy deployed its biggest and latest warship, the US-built Hamilton class BRP Gregorio del Pilar to Panatag Shoal on Sunday, immediately after Chinese fishermen were discovered there with their ships filled with giant clams and various species of marine life.

The BRP Gregorio del Pilar had planned to arrest the fishermen, but two Chinese surveillance vessels appeared on the scene on Tuesday and blocked the warship from approaching the fishing boats.


China claims all of the South China Sea as its own, even waters up to the coasts of other countries, and Chinese authorities insisted the fishermen were allowed to be at the shoal.

The standoff escalated into a diplomatic brawl on Wednesday when both governments publicly protested each other’s actions, and traded accusations as to whose presence in the area was illegal.


BRP Pampanga

Del Rosario said the Philippines decided to remove the Navy's flagship from the tiny set of islands and reefs in the West Philippine Sea or South China Sea while trying to negotiate an end to the five-day impasse.

The pullout of the warship left the Philippines with a 56-meter-long search and rescue coast guard vessel as its only presence at Scarborough Shoal.

Lt. Commander Algier Ricafrente of the Philippine Coast Guard told GMA News Online the BRP Pampanga, skippered by Lt. Commander Vincent Fiesta, was at the disputed area Thursday morning.

Citing security reasons, Ricafrente declined to give the number of officers and crew onboard the Coast Guard search and rescue vessel.

However, the Northern Luzon region's military commander, Lt. Gen. Anthony Alcantara, said the Gregorio del Pilar would still roam around the area and that a second coast guard vessel would soon arrive.



Presidential troubleshooter

<snipped>

Meanwhile, del Rosario said the Philippines had been taken by surprise when a third Chinese maritime vessel arrived at Panatag Shoal on Thursday.

"There are three ships there now. Three white ships," he said, indicating the civilian nature of the Chinese vessels.

Asked whether the Chinese side had informed Philippine negotiators about the deployment of the extra ship, del Rosario said: "No they did not."


The Philippines accused Chinese vessels of firing warning shots at Filipino fishermen, as well as harassing an oil exploration vessel and placing markers on islets within Philippine territory.

This week's standoff is the highest-profile in recent years.


More of the article here.
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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THE_NEWS_MAN
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3rd China ship enters Scarborough Shoal

The Philippine Navy’s flagship, BRP Gregorio del Pilar, withdrew from the disputed Scarborough Shoal Thursday morning even as a third Chinese civilian ship entered the area on the third day of a standoff.
“It has been pulled out for reprovisioning. I think it will go to Poro Point, but it has been replaced by a Coast Guard vessel,” Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario told reporters.
Navy Flag Officer in Command Vice Admiral Alexander Pama confirmed that the BRP Gregorio del Pilar was being pulled out from Panatag Shoal to replenish fuel and food provisions at Poro Point in La Union province.
“It’s definitely not a retreat on the basis of the position that we took that this is ours. There’s another Philippine Coast Guard vessel that will be there to continue to enforce what we started,” Pama said. “That area is ours, there is absolutely no doubt about that. That is ours.”
Del Rosario, who is seeking to defuse tensions over the resource-rich shoal in talks with Chinese Ambassador Ma Keqing, downplayed the arrival of yet another Chinese vessel in the area 220 kilometers west of Zambales province.
“I don’t think it should be a cause for concern. I understand the third ship is attached to the fisheries department of the Chinese government,” he said. “I might ask Ambassador Ma casually why there is another ship there, what’s the purpose of that ship,” he said, stressing that he was “working hard to arrive at a diplomatic resolution.”
“We’re watching developments,” Del Rosario said. “I don’t see any tensions rising. No increase in tension, we’re trying to avoid doing that. Hopefully we could arrive at a resolution as negotiations continue.”
Part of defusing the tension was the withdrawal of the navy’s largest warship, the Gregorio del Pilar, according to Pama. He told the Inquirer the two Chinese vessels are not warships but maritime civilian ships.
Pama also said the Gregorio del Pilar was going to be on standby for any contingency that may arise from the launch any day now of the North Korean rocket.
The standoff began on Sunday when a Philippine Navy plane spotted eight Chinese fishing vessels in a lagoon at Scarborough Shoal. The BRP Gregorio del Pilar was dispatched to the area on Tuesday and attempted to detain Chinese fishing boats found with large amounts of “endangered marine species.” Two Chinese marine surveillance craft intervened, according to the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA).
Del Rosario said he expected a breakthrough before he leaves for the United States this weekend to campaign for Justice Florentino Feliciano, the Philippine candidate to the International Court of Justice.
“We are moving forward but this is still a work in progress. Hopefully we can get it done in a day or two but we will have to see,” he said.

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