| Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
| The China Threat; military, political, economic, etc. | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 16 2004, 01:56 AM (13,549 Views) | |
| roughneck | May 3 2008, 02:58 PM Post #111 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What our Government can do about this? What the US response to this? Is this a Deterent force ng China para panakot sa Asean nieghbors? There is in did an Unbalanced force in Southeast Asean region. Wala ba tayong gagawin para ma balance or makahabol tayo sa modernization ng Navy.. |
![]() |
|
| MSantor | May 5 2008, 06:35 AM Post #112 |
![]()
|
Roughneck, Don't be so naive. Neither the RP nor the US government can do anything because China is developing this base within its own territory and is within its own territorial/sovereign rights to build up its own military. Also, this is not really a shift in the regional power balance because the mainland Chinese government has been developing its fleet for a long time and has several SSM-equipped destroyers and frigates as well as submarines in its arsenal. Also, most of its neighbours who can be also potential adversaries in the region- which include Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea and Japan- have comparable surface and submarine fleets to counter the Chinese navy/PLAN fleet, except for the JIN and XIA class SSBNs which gives China the edge by giving the Chinese Navy a forward-deployable nuclear missile capability. Also, the 3 or so Chinese Navy destroyers/DDGs and the single frigate/FFG that you see in the satellite recon picture above are only a small portion of the overall strength of the Chinese surface fleet. The fact that this discovery alarmed you so much is because you and the general Filipino public have been so unaware of this threat that has already been there for years but which your leaders chose not to let your public see as a key foreign policy issue because it would show their inaction and their ignorance of how to deal with it. Still, while your government cannot just simply ask the PRC government to withdraw its ships or dismantle its bases in Hainan through more spineless diplomacy, and somehow hope that the US will again come to the RP's rescue (even if the US is also trying to counter PRC moves itself in the South China Sea with actions like the recent P3 flights over Hainan, one of which led to the recent 2001 collision incident with a Chinese fighter), but the RP should still take the initiative in buying MRFs BEFORE those Chinese naval and air forces based in Hainan start making more aggressive moves!!!!!!
|
|
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
![]() |
|
| roughneck | May 5 2008, 05:02 PM Post #113 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Mr MSantor, We are talking about Nuclear Subs. Thailand, Japan, South Korea has no Nuclear Capabilities. How will you compare it to China?What more the Philippines? What's our Capabilities? I can compare what was happen in europe during the cold war, where the US deploy Minuteman Missiles in europe to counter the Threat of the large Soviet Unoin ICBM. I'm not saying that the US must do the same thing. Tayo ang kawawa kc wala tayong capability both nuke and conventional warfares. D tulad ng Asean neighbors natin na may modernized na military. Its really unfair to us. |
![]() |
|
| spraret | May 5 2008, 05:45 PM Post #114 |
|
PDFF Admin Support
![]()
|
dont you worry much roughneck, the Americans are very much aware of these Chinese nuke subs, one burp from any of them and its la la la seabottom courtesy of a US fast attack submarine http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1209942057...=googlenews_wsj
|
![]() |
|
| MSantor | May 6 2008, 12:35 PM Post #115 |
![]()
|
This is still not an excuse for the RP/PN not to improve its almost non-existent ASW capabilities. That is why it is up to the RP to take the initiative to start modernizing on the air and naval front; you cannot be forever dependent on the US for help on external defense!!!!! |
|
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
![]() |
|
| gen1 | May 8 2008, 06:48 AM Post #116 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I guess it's agood a time as any to invite the 7th fleet back
|
![]() |
|
| Zero wing | May 12 2008, 05:32 AM Post #117 |
|
ZAFT Sepcial Forces Operative for SEA
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Ya man i agree it was one of our great mistakes dapat saan they just change some provisons on the treaty then kick the Americans out alam na man nila na almost 90% of the AFP is dependent on US backing on everything but i guess its too late now but still a posibility dapat we should take advantage of our NON Nato ally status but i think the gov't is doing nothing on it i ask bakit na man they are not taking advantage na man!! |
|
"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom." “As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,”(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile) “Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson) | |
![]() |
|
| israeli | May 13 2008, 05:50 PM Post #118 |
![]()
|
with China's growing might causing alarm to American officials come suggestions of increased military cooperation between the US and the Philippines up to a point that the Americans should lease fighter jets and warships to us Filipinos. here's the article: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/na...ns120015775.php China's new naval base triggers US concerns Agence France-Presse | May 13, 2008 WASHINGTON: China's new underground nuclear submarine base close to vital sea lanes in Southeast Asia has raised US concerns, with experts calling for a shoring up of alliances in the region to check Beijing's growing military clout. The base's existence on the southern tip of Hainan Island was confirmed for the first time by high resolution satellite images, according to Jane's Intelligence Review, a respected defence periodical, this month. It could hold up to 20 submarines, including a new type of nuclear ballistic missile submarine, and future Chinese aircraft carrier battle groups, posing a challenge to longstanding US military dominance in Asia. China should not pursue such "high-end military options," warned Admiral Timothy Keating, the top commander of US forces in Asia, in an interview with the Voice of America last week. He underlined America's "firm intention" not to abandon its dominating military role in the Pacific and told Beijing it would face "sure defeat" if it took on the United States militarily. Worried mostly about Taiwan's security, Washington has often questioned China's military expansion on the back of rapid economic growth. But American military experts attending a forum on China's naval expansion in Washington Monday said the nuclear submarine base underscored Beijing's interest in projecting power beyond the Taiwan Strait. "The most important thing about the Hainan development is that if you look at the map, there is really nowhere China could go except south," said Arthur Waldron, an expert at the University of Pennsylvania, referring to the South China Sea and critical sea lanes, including the Strait of Malacca straddling Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore. "This Hainan facility is going to raise questions in the minds of all of the neighbours because this is a fixed facility and cannot be removed," Waldron said. "My own sense is that it is going to make ripples and waves." He said Washington should "tighten" its alliances in Asia to check China's growing military might and develop "interoperability" capabilities among allies such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, the Philippines and Singapore, as well as Indonesia and Malaysia. James Lyons, an ex-commander of the US Pacific Fleet, said the United States needed to reestablish high-level military ties with the Philippines as part of efforts to enhance US deterrence in the wake of China's naval expansion. He said "operational tactics" used against the former Soviet Union during the Cold War should be applied against China. He suggested US leasing a squadron of F-16 fighter jets and navy vessels to the Philippines, where Washington once had naval and air bases, as part of the deterrence strategy. "We don't need a permanent base but we need access," Lyons said, suggesting also that Japan play a more "meaningful" role in protecting critical sea lanes in the region. "Again the Soviets, we raised that deterrence equation and we won the war without firing a shot basically ... there is no cheap way out and we have to improve our posture in the Western Pacific along with our allies," he said. Richard Fisher, an expert of China military affairs at the International Assessment and Strategy Center, a US think tank, expected US confrontation with China as Beijing modernized its nuclear ballistic missile submarines, referred to in military jargon as SSBNs. "Absent a higher military diplomatic relationship with the Chinese, I foresee a period of growing confrontation in the South China Sea," he said. "If they are going to be maintaining SSBN patrols within guarded areas of the South China Sea, the US has no choice but to maintain contacts or to monitor these SSBNs so as to be able to take them out in the event they come to threaten the US -- just as we did against Soviet SSBNs during the Cold War," he said. The Hainan facility, he said, was a timely replacement for Beijing's first nuclear ballistic missile submarine base at the Bohai Gulf north of the country, which he added was too shallow to support nuclear deterrent patrols. The Chinese would not allow the American navy to enter the air space and waters around the Hainan base uncontested, Fisher said. "There is a very strong likelihood that there would be incidents at sea and that ships and aircraft and their crew members could be lost," he said. |
| "To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz | |
![]() |
|
| gen1 | May 13 2008, 06:36 PM Post #119 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
leasing F16s (and maybe a couple of their old spruance class destroyers) will be an excellent idea ! |
![]() |
|
| roughneck | May 18 2008, 10:33 AM Post #120 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Are the US gonna use the Philippines as a deterrent? Mas maganda nga kasi d n natin kaiangan gumasto ng malaking pera para sa AFP modernization US na mismo magbibigay ng mga gamit sa AFP para gamitin as deterrenr force sa china. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · General Military and Law Enforcement · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z1.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)




(even if the US is also trying to counter PRC moves itself in the South China Sea with actions like the recent P3 flights over Hainan, one of which led to the recent 2001 collision incident with a Chinese fighter), but the RP should still take the initiative in buying MRFs BEFORE those Chinese naval and air forces based in Hainan start making more aggressive moves!!!!!!


2:50 PM Jul 13