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| Shall we go Russian? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 28 2004, 02:35 PM (13,380 Views) | |
| Tsukiyomi | May 11 2012, 10:19 AM Post #151 |
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China produced so many Migs's at that time because at that time it was "good enough", they liked large numbers and they could afford little else. Today's Chinese military has modernized greatly and those large numbers of migs are being retired or relegated to other less important duties. The Chinese understand the value of quality over quantity. The top gun schools used the mig because it was dissimilar, small and represenative of the flight profiles of many aircraft. Keep in mind the F-5 and a few other "small" fighters was also used as an aggressor but that does not mean we should go out and buy 2,100 more of those. |
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| Santi Kampilan | May 11 2012, 12:47 PM Post #152 |
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Warlord, I like that aggressiveness in spite of great odds. Our leaders need a little push. But it seems like the F-16 will not come into fruition. As a substitute I don't mind 2 squadrons Gripens and maybe a squadron or two of the SU-35s as our backbone together with the subs and bring on all the Italian and Spanish warships. But Warlord you are right, we need those subs asap. I like the Russian Amur and they can start with 4-6 of the small 550's which is perfect for our littoral waters but they should move up to the heavier 1850's which has missile capabilities. That should keep all those CMS from roaming around the EEZ waters of the Philippines and the West Philippine Sea for that matter. Yup, I don't understand the US why they don't arm us properly but it's time to take the matter into our hands. Can we afford this? Yes we can. Here is how. By the end of the year the Philippines will have about 80 billion (Vietnam has only 15 B) in the coffer. A comfortable 12 months worth to service our debt. IMF requires only a good 4 months worth to be considered healthy. PH invested 10B in various countries, we need 30 B for debt service so literally we can use 30-40 B of what is left in the coffer. Even if we just use 20 B, according to former NEDA Sec Neri is perfectly legal, and allow investment advisers such as Goldman Sachs to handle the investment portfolio and get at least a conservative return of 12% to 17% on its investments. Based on the rule of 72 is takes only 6 years to double your 20 B at 12%. At the end of 6 years you are still left with 40 B and you would have used 20 B to ramp up your defense needs. This is a drastic measure that will not hurt the Philippines. Will this change the balance in Southeast Asia. Sure it will. It will put us in par or probably bypass Singapore eventually by the end of next decade. But this will gain respect from the Chinese who is currently blabbermouthing with their threats. Manong Johnny is hot to buy arms and we need to take advantage of this. By the way Norway is the number 1 investor in the world. they can afford to stick a finger to the Chinese and the Russians are pissing in the pants having their anti Ballistic Aegis destroyers roaming the Artic Oceans. |
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| warlord | May 11 2012, 01:46 PM Post #153 |
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Us developed top gun school because the mig-21 was shooting down all there fighter aircrafts with impunity during it's first encounter in Vietnan. China use the mig-21 as there main interceptor aircraft because it's speed and hard to see during dog fight because of it's size. Where are the Philippine navy seals these type of crisis they should be deployed with the cyclone boat nearby the disputed shoal. Philippine navy seal team should be deployed 5 miles out with there CRRC ( combat rubber raiding craft) At midnight plant explosives leave the area without a trace. The news the next day will say big fire accident at the shoal envolving foreign owned ships in the Philippine territory. China will be embarrassed of this incident that they can't even retaliate because it happened in the Philippine water and they don't even know who hits them. |
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| Tsukiyomi | May 11 2012, 09:11 PM Post #154 |
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The first paragraph is no longer relevant to current events. The second paragraph I like in theory but practice would be another thing. I would test our teams first in some exercises that would ensure they have the training and equipment that would allow them to successfully undertake such an operation without failure and minimal loss of our lives. I would also like to see something done in a similar fashion to the Chinese structures that were built against the treaty. |
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| Mckoyzzz | May 11 2012, 11:52 PM Post #155 |
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As much as I am in favor of land based SAMs and ASMs and we DO NEED it, but having them without naval ships will not work in the current WPS dispute... missiles cannot block ships and oil rigs and Chinese fishermen and other "Chinese civilian" ships planting flags, occupying atolls/shoals/islands and constructing bases within those islands... naval assets are still an integral part of our defense... but having ships and missiles are much better... |
 "Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong -- Dandemis" | |
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| InkognitoAce | May 12 2012, 12:41 AM Post #156 |
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With limited budget, I think that we ought to fast-track the acquisition of air-defense hardware for our naval aseets (to protect them from cruise-missile attacks) and of the BrahMos supersonic cruise-missile. See, from what I understand, the main threats would be coming from ChiCom ships, missiles and planes (subs have to be considered as well), but with a well-functioning air-defense system and the BrahMos supsersonic cruise-missiles, we will have the power to make the ChiCom think twice before they decide to send their warships into our territory in case the situation escalates further. |
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"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God." (G. K. Chesterton) "Justice forbids, and reason itself forbids, the State to be godless; or to adopt a line of action which would end in godlessness, namely to treat the various religions (as they call them) alike, and to bestow upon them promiscuously equal rights and privileges." (Pope Leo XIII) | |
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| InkognitoAce | May 12 2012, 01:49 AM Post #157 |
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Oerlikon 35mm air-defense Gun Video number 2 
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"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God." (G. K. Chesterton) "Justice forbids, and reason itself forbids, the State to be godless; or to adopt a line of action which would end in godlessness, namely to treat the various religions (as they call them) alike, and to bestow upon them promiscuously equal rights and privileges." (Pope Leo XIII) | |
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| warlord | May 12 2012, 02:37 AM Post #158 |
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Good some of you guys getting the concept building an affordable but effective land base defense and offensive missiles system first should be the priority. Philippines will never invade a country why invest in expensive frigates, destroyers and multiple aircrafts. PN having 2 whec's should be enough because the upkeep of these vessels will drain your funds. Whec's should have it's ASW capability with torpedo and it's Harpoon missiles installed to be able to enforce your territory. AFP having 2 of these capable ships back by land base supersonic cruise missiles will improve AFP's naval strike capability. Afp's navy ships will also be protected by land base radar and long range Surface to air missiles. Philippines should also invest in Armed UAV's like the predator unit cost 4.5 million armed with Hellfire missiles has range 400 miles and can loiter for 14 hours before returning to base. A squadron of armed predator will be the perfect naval patrol aircraft for the vast Philippine coastline and also perfect for insurgency campaign in Mindanao and you will never lose your pilot because he safe flying this aircraft inside the control room drinking a cup of coffee, if the US won't sell it to you guys Israel has it's own version of it that I'm pretty sure they will sell it to you guys. |
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| Tsukiyomi | May 12 2012, 03:01 AM Post #159 |
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Don't buy the preds... My cano friends have made it clear they are fickle to operate and cost alot to operate verse a manned ISR asset. You can easily get a manned ISR asset and when ready you can have it armed. Get used to the whole ISR concept. Develop your own TTP's and then make the step towards unmanned assets. By the time you are ready to make a purchase of a major unmanned asset like a pred, the operability issues will have improved and operating costs should go down. |
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| InkognitoAce | May 12 2012, 04:17 AM Post #160 |
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Regarding the predators: even that can be made cheaper: by having locally built turboprop manned planes that can carry rhe hellfire missiles. There are warbirds that people still fly nowadays: if made properly, they last a very long time and have less fuel consumption than a jet. Land-based air-defense systems and long-range anti-ship missiles is the way to go right now: they are cheaper and can be more easily secured than a ship that is also open to threats from ChiCom subs. You don't have to bother with torpedoes when you're on land. Distribute the missiles and air-defense guns wisely and we can cover most of the Western borders with ease. |
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"Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God." (G. K. Chesterton) "Justice forbids, and reason itself forbids, the State to be godless; or to adopt a line of action which would end in godlessness, namely to treat the various religions (as they call them) alike, and to bestow upon them promiscuously equal rights and privileges." (Pope Leo XIII) | |
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2:46 PM Jul 13