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Taiwan and the SCS/WPS; re-titled merged threads
Topic Started: Jun 28 2012, 06:47 PM (4,507 Views)
Ayoshi
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^
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An illustration of the planned pier on Taiping Island. (Illustration courtesy of Lin Yu-fang)
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

ayoshi
Jul 14 2014, 04:23 PM
^
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An illustration of the planned pier on Taiping Island. (Illustration courtesy of Lin Yu-fang)
You all (and me) can only look with envy.

There probably was some red tape that they had to deal with, but they pulled through. Frigate escorts and $110M can make a difference.

This should serve as an inspiration rather than what I think is bound to ensue - "pointing fingers" - that way, there is a chance to actually get things done in Pagasa Island. The later (finger pointing) serves no purpose other than the negative.


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Zero wing
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ZAFT Sepcial Forces Operative for SEA
[ *  *  * ]
Any chinese dominated country can not be trusted they all imperials now
"No sacrifice is too great in the service of freedom."

“As long as we are not willing to provide an adequate, suitable and capable defense for this country, we will be oppressed, demeaned and dishonored. We will be the stepping mat of every country in this region,”(Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile)

“Just because we are a very weak country militarily, we should not be taken advantage of by more powerful countries" (Senate committee on national defense and security chairman Panfilo Lacson)
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Hong Nam
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1) And what is a "Chinese dominated country" exactly?
2) What are the parameters of such definition?
3) What is it exactly in a person to make him/her in your definition in order to qualify as being "chinese"?
4) Are your SCS/WPS problems caused by a certain ethnicity or a by certain type of government?
5) What is "all imperials"?







Edited by Hong Nam, Jul 15 2014, 01:54 AM.

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Hong Nam
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Quote:
 
Vietnam concerned by Taiwan's work on Taiping Island
CNA
2014-07-15


Vietnamese media has expressed concern over a report that a pier is currently being built by Taiwan on Taiping Island, the largest of the Spratly Islands in the disputed South China Sea, is likely to be completed before the scheduled date in late 2015.

The reports described Taiping - called Ba Binh in Vietnam - as the largest island in the Spratly Islands and part of Vietnam's territory that is "being illegally occupied by Taiwan with military personnel stationed there."

Taiwan, in fact, has deployed Coast Guard officers rather than military personnel on Taiping Island.

Vietnam has repeatedly asked Taiwan to stop its improvements to Taiping's runway and pier to prevent the situation in the South China Sea from becoming more complex, the reports said.

The Vietnamese government had yet to make any official response as of Monday afternoon.


Want China Times


The improvement of Taiping Island somewhat reflects the Philippines' desire to have its facilities in Pagasa Island repaired and improved.

Last year, the Department of National Defense allocated P480 million to upgrade the facilities in the island. The first stage of the project, involves dredging so construction materiale from ships can come in and be unloaded. The second stage involves the runway repair itself. Air Force chief Lieutenant General Jeffrey Delgado says they have to be 'careful' in proceeding with the repair considering the escalating tension in the West Philippine Sea.

Is the Philippines trying not to upset a potential friend in Vietnam? Is this perhaps one of the reasons why the Philippines seem somewhat reluctant?

Although under the non-binding agreement between the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China... There is nothing that prohibits upgrading of existing features. Why is Vietnam complaining?

Just curious... Are the Spratly Islands within their 200nm economic exclusion zone or their claims are also based on historical records?

Edited by Hong Nam, Jul 16 2014, 03:14 PM.

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Hong Nam
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Pixel by pixel, Taiwan maps out claims to contested South China Sea

Taiwan is finishing a project to map the disputed sea with high-resolution satellite imagery, generating an unusually detailed map and promoting Taiwan's often overlooked maritime claims - which are as large as China's.



TAIPEI, TAIWAN - Wang Cheng-gi laughs nervously as he discusses the results of the $2.98 million project to map out the minutia of every islet in the resource-rich ocean south of Taiwan are still classified. But when completed in about a year, the maps could reshape Taiwan's often-overlooked maritime claim against more powerful Asian governments.

Taiwan is pushing its first-ever mapping project to back up its own claims - which are as large as mainland China's - and to be one step ahead in the knowledge game of who is doing what in the contested waters.


"The satellite images will let our government departments see the latest situations and understand which country is doing what. We might find things we've not seen before."


One surprise to Wang so far is the activity of Vietnam, which is developing reefs and artificial islands in the Spratly Island, the largest South China Sea archipelago that Taiwan also claims. Hanoi has landfilled shallow reefs and built homes on some islets, one Vietnamese landfill project spans 11 football fields, according to images that can be blown up to about a square meter per islet.

"It's really clear. Everyone is talking about mainland China, but Vietnam is going all out. This year they've landfilled to here, but maybe next year they will fill out to there."


Taipei is gathering evidence to be taken seriously when it reiterates claims to the South China Sea, analysts say. Taiwan would otherwise be forgotten as a claimant, reducing future access to the less developed islets or resources at sea.

But Taiwan's new gambit to revive its South China Sea claims would be less welcomed around Asia. The Philippines, which has extensive fisheries but little physical presence in the disputed ocean, is already asking the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea to review the basis for China's claim. If the UN sided with the Philippines against China, Manila would have grounds to dispute Taiwan, as well.



CS Monitor






Edited by Hong Nam, Sep 25 2014, 11:33 AM.

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Hong Nam
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Hong Nam
Sep 25 2014, 11:31 AM

One surprise to Wang so far is Vietnam, which is developing reefs and artificial islands in the Spratly Island, the largest South China Sea archipelago that Taiwan also claims. Hanoi has landfilled shallow reefs and built homes on some islets, one Vietnamese landfill project spans 11 football fields, according to images that can be blown up to about a square meter per islet.


"It's really clear. Everyone is talking about mainland China, but Vietnam is going all out. This year they've landfilled to here, but maybe next year they will fill out to there."




Looks like the "Taiwanese Report" is true. The Vietnamese are hard at work too. It seems that someone's getting left out while all this work is going around the neighbourhood. And here I was wondering why Vietnam was so silent about the massive Chinese construction in their immediate vicinity.


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Edited by Hong Nam, Sep 28 2014, 10:59 PM.

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Hong Nam
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Joining the dashes
The South China Sea's littoral states will fight in the museums, in the archives and on the maps

Oct 4th 2014

The Taipei exhibition for the first time put on display a small portion of the archives that accompanied Chiang Kai-shek and his Kuomintang (KMT), or Nationalist party, when they fled Mao Zedong's victorious Communists to the island in 1949.

On paper, Taiwan's claim is identical to that of China, whose assertion of sovereignty over most of the sea, within a vast mysterious U-shaped line around its edges, has alarmed its neighbours. So Taiwan's archives have attracted keen interest. What is more, Taiwan's elucidation of its claim is a setback for China.

Taiwan's president, Ma Ying-jeou, clarified what the KMT government was claiming in 1947 when it asserted sovereignty over islands held during the second world war by the Japanese. Unlike China, which has never spelled out whether it is claiming everything inside its U-shaped line - islands, rocks, shoals, reefs, fish, oil, gas and water - or just the islands, Mr. Ma was clear that the claim was limited to islands and 3 to 12 nautical miles of their adjacent waters. There were, he said, "no other so-called claims to sea regions".

This matters, because in theory it means the line could be interpreted as compatible with current international law. Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), "the land dominates the sea". Land features are entitled to 12 miles of territorial waters; habitable islands have an additional 200 miles of exclusive economic zone (EEZ). So even if all the islands were China," its EEZ would be subject to painstaking demarcation and might not cover the whole sea.

Mr Ma's intervention will have pleased America. Bonnie Glaser, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think-tank, says the Americans have been secretly urging Mr. Ma to clarify what the KMT meant when it drew up the map. The hope was that this would put pressure on China to spell out and even modify its own stance. It is part of America's efforts to avert conflict in the sea, a vital maritime thoroughfare for a big proportion of world trade.

Mr. Ma has ruled out co-operating with China on the shared claim, but cannot redraw Taiwan's boundaries without being seen in China as guilty of separatism. His six-year presidency has been marked by vastly improved relations with China. He would not want the South China Sea to ruin this. Under him, Taiwan is quietly building a new port big enough to host warships on Itu Aba, or Taiping, the largest island in the Spratly chain. But otherwise Mr. Ma has been silent. He must hope now that China will regard his clarification as legalistic and trivial.

If China were to accept Mr. Ma's interpretation it would at least add clarity to the complex interlocking disputes. But though many Chinese scholars tend to agree with him, China seems in no hurry officially to commit itself. Even if it did, a resolution to the disputes would be no closer. UNCLOS can adjudicate on the waters attached to pieces of land, but not on sovereignty over the land itself.

And China's are not the only maps, nor necessarily the most credible. Among those on display in Manila is one showing as Philippine territory the Scarborough shoal, a rocky outcrop in effect annexed by China in 2012. The map dates from 1636, predating the nine-dashed line by a good three centuries.


The Economist








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pachador


this is a very big setback to the bully because their claim also rests on their inheriting the claims of taiwan and the kuomintang, but if taiwan's claim is only the islands and not the entire sea, then it makes the bully claim even more spurious indeed.

Hong Nam
Oct 6 2014, 03:00 PM
Joining the dashes
The South China Sea's littoral states will fight in the museums, in the archives and on the maps

Oct 4th 2014

The Taipei exhibition for the first time put on display a small portion of the archives that accompanied Chiang Kai-shek and his Kuomintang (KMT), or Nationalist party, when they fled Mao Zedong's victorious Communists to the island in 1949.

On paper, Taiwan's claim is identical to that of China, whose assertion of sovereignty over most of the sea, within a vast mysterious U-shaped line around its edges, has alarmed its neighbours. So Taiwan's archives have attracted keen interest. What is more, Taiwan's elucidation of its claim is a setback for China.

Taiwan's president, Ma Ying-jeou, clarified what the KMT government was claiming in 1947 when it asserted sovereignty over islands held during the second world war by the Japanese. Unlike China, which has never spelled out whether it is claiming everything inside its U-shaped line - islands, rocks, shoals, reefs, fish, oil, gas and water - or just the islands, Mr. Ma was clear that the claim was limited to islands and 3 to 12 nautical miles of their adjacent waters. There were, he said, "no other so-called claims to sea regions".

This matters, because in theory it means the line could be interpreted as compatible with current international law. Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), "the land dominates the sea". Land features are entitled to 12 miles of territorial waters; habitable islands have an additional 200 miles of exclusive economic zone (EEZ). So even if all the islands were China," its EEZ would be subject to painstaking demarcation and might not cover the whole sea.

Mr Ma's intervention will have pleased America. Bonnie Glaser, of the Centre for Strategic and International Studies, a Washington think-tank, says the Americans have been secretly urging Mr. Ma to clarify what the KMT meant when it drew up the map. The hope was that this would put pressure on China to spell out and even modify its own stance. It is part of America's efforts to avert conflict in the sea, a vital maritime thoroughfare for a big proportion of world trade.


Edited by pachador, Oct 6 2014, 03:12 PM.
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Hong Nam
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pachador
Oct 6 2014, 03:12 PM
this is a very big setback to the bully because their claim also rests on their inheriting the claims of taiwan and the kuomintang, but if taiwan's claim is only the islands and not the entire sea, then it makes the bully claim even more spurious indeed.

Hong Nam
Oct 6 2014, 03:00 PM
Joining the dashes
The South China Sea's littoral states will fight in the museums, in the archives and on the maps

Oct 4th 2014


This matters, because in theory it means the line could be interpreted as compatible with current international law. Under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), "the land dominates the sea". Land features are entitled to 12 miles of territorial waters; habitable islands have an additional 200 miles of exclusive economic zone (EEZ). So even if all the islands were China," its EEZ would be subject to painstaking demarcation and might not cover the whole sea.



It certainly will quash the absurd 9-dash-line claim of their communist brethren. Which means Reed Tablemount, Second Thomas Shoal, and Scarborough Shoal are definitely yours. You will have your EEZ and have a legal reason to take back Mischief Reef.

And perhaps the rest of the islands (the real ones of course) and those which are beyond the 200nm EEZ of the competing countries could be awarded to those currently occupying them. Awarding them from 3-12nm of territorial waters. Not entirely a victory for all, but definitely will prevent the outbreak of hostilities and will be easier for countries to jointly exploit the hydrocarbon resources in the areas.

And by looking at the 200nm EEZs... Looks like you will get the lions share and Vietnam will have very little.


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** Noting that Parola (Northeast Cay) - est 241nm, Kota (Loaita Island) - est 208nm, Pagasa (Thitu Island) - est 228nm, and Panata Islands (Lankiam Cay) - 214nm from the furthest point of Palawan Province, are outside the Philippine 200nm EEZ.

** Likas (West York Island) - est 196nm, Patag (Flat Island) - est 150nm, Lawak (Nanshan Island) - est 147nm, Rizal Reef (Commodore Reef) - est 167nm, Ayungin Shoal (Second Thomas Shoal) est 106nm from the furthest point of Palawan Province are within the Philippine 200nm EEZ.

** Distances obtained from ABS-CBN News.

Edited by Hong Nam, Oct 8 2014, 12:04 PM.

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