Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Vietnam vs China in the Paracel Islands, SCS; updates, discussions
Topic Started: Jun 25 2012, 06:56 PM (3,398 Views)
pachador


my criticism of Ku is centered on this article http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-philippines-massive-lawfare-blunder-the-south-china-sea-11837
see post # 29.

in that article, let me quote him with my remarks;
"The Philippines’ “lawfare” strategy is almost certainly going to fail,"
"While it is true that states like China suffer reputational damage if they openly ignore or violate an international tribunal’s judgment, history shows that most states can weather such reputational damage without serious consequences"
"it seems likely that the Philippines lawsuit will only succeed in antagonizing China without changing its behavior."
"Such voluntary arbitrations (in contrast to the compulsory mechanism set up by UNCLOS) are far more likely to succeed than arbitrations where one side (like the Philippines) uses a clever legal strategy to drag another state (like China) into an involuntary arbitration.'

for the paid 'hack' part, i said i was wondering if he was a hack, i did not say he was a hack. Surely, that is allowed under free speech.
he is suggesting arbitration, but how can that succeed when the essence of arbitration is compromise by making concessions. why should the philippines make concessions when most of the disputed areas are within the 200 mile EEZ of the philippines whereas the bully mainland is more than a 1,000 miles away ? it is like giving the squatter land that you legally own just to make him happy.
As for "Philippines’ “lawfare” strategy is almost certainly going to fail", whats his authority for saying that ? is he an expert on maritime law ? a look at his bio shows not to be the case. the american lawyers that the philippines hired for the case are one of the best if not the best in the world on maritime law issues, and they believe we have a strong case.
as for the bully ignoring the ITLOS judgement, we already know that, and we expect that, we just care about the specific delineations so if firing starts later in areas legally awarded to the philippines by ITLOS, the world will know who is at fault.
as for antagonizing the bully, we know that, of course the bully will be angry because we do not want to make concessions, how in the world can we make concessions by giving areas to a bully more than 1,000 miles away ? that is laughable. the bully is angry because what the ITLOS case is about is specific delineation of maritime lines as legally allowed under UN law of the sea. they are worried that their 9-dash imposition will be unmasked as illegal
Now if it turns out that ITLOS will not award the philippines anything,then so be it, I still believe that the philippine govt took the right decision -it may be a high risk decision for some like mr. Ku , but i think its the optimum decision in our circumstances. the strategy of arbitration falls into the gameplan of the bully, its actually more suited for vietnam and the bully since they are much closer to each other. by the way, did vetnam and the bully already agree on arbitration ? havent looked into that yet.
and again, we have tried diplomacy since the mischief reef crisis in 1995, and it has gotten us nowhere due to the bully's unrelenting demand that their sovereignty over the 9-dash line be respected.



Edited by pachador, Dec 17 2014, 02:14 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

pachador
Dec 17 2014, 01:50 AM
for the paid 'hack' part, i said i was wondering if he was a hack, i did not say he was a hack. Surely, that is allowed under free speech.
he is suggesting arbitration, but how can that succeed when the essence of arbitration is compromise by making concessions.
The wonders of free speech. Everyone is entitled to an opinion irregardless of how absurd it is.

- His articles clearly show that he disapproves of the Chinese belligerence in the SCS.
- You criticise him because you don't agree with his opinion in a single article.
- Which immediately makes you wonder if he is a "paid hack".

A paid hack who is against his employers? The logic escapes me. He must have recently been missing his paycheck from China.

Your opinions are your opinions... Let's just disregard the fact that he is internationaly considered one of the most respected and reliable resource person in his field. But perhaps you are too.


Quote:
 
Opinio Juris is a forum for informed discussion and lively debate about international law and international relations. It was founded by Chris Borgen, a law professor at St. John’s University Law School, who started the site with Peggy McGuinness, also of St. John’s University Law School, and Julian Ku of Hofstra Law School. The site debuted in January 2005. Since then, the Opinio Juris team has expanded to include Roger Alford of Notre Dame Law School; Kevin Jon Heller from Melbourne Law School in Australia; Duncan Hollis and Peter Spiro, both of Temple University Law School; Ken Anderson of American University Washington College of Law; Deborah Pearlstein, currently a visiting scholar at Princeton; and most recently Kristen Boon of Seton Hall Law School. Jessica Dorsey and An Hertogen are the assistant editors.

The Opinio Juris team of authors holds a wide range of views from across the political spectrum and brings a range of experience from their pre-academic careers in government, private legal practice and the NGO community. We encourage civil and respectful dialogue among our bloggers, readers (who may post comments), and guest-bloggers. Our goal is to be both informative and thought-provoking by fostering vigorous intellectual engagement without vitriol. The marketplace of ideas is what we make of it.

Feel free to drop in here and share your opinion with them. However, I am not certain if the rest of them are paid hacks too.


Edited by Hong Nam, Dec 17 2014, 06:13 AM.

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pachador


hong i have seen his background and nowhere does it state his specialty is maritime issues or maritime law. of course i criticised him in that article that I quoted because that is the article i was concerned about. Again i was wondering if he was a hack , i did not say he was a paid hack,
if there is an expert on maritime law, it is the american lawyer representing the philippines in ITLOS: http://www.foleyhoag.com/people/reichler-paul#experience
if the bully is so convinced of the righteousness of its position, it would have been eager to to go court or arbitral tribunal or any kind of arbitration voluntary or compulsory. instead, it has been making all kinds of threats to stop the philippines. The article's title of Ku to repeat is "The Philippines' Massive Lawfare Blunder in the South China Sea "
anyway, you disagree with me , I disagree with you , lets leave it at that.
Edited by pachador, Dec 17 2014, 07:52 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

I agree... Let's leave it at that.

Although I admit I hate his analysis and certainly wouldn't want it to be true, I believe it is a possibility - which is why I want your country to be prepared IF it ever comes to that "nightmare". When the situation deteriorates, the only ones you can really count to be there on is your very own armed forces. I don't think them yanquis will be there fast enough.

I (just as much as you) would want your country to purge them out of your EEZ and would even pay good money for a front seat to see their illegal structures blasted out of the water - starting with Mischief Reef.








Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
pachador


Hong Nam
Dec 17 2014, 01:15 PM
I agree... Let's leave it at that.

Although I admit I hate his analysis and certainly wouldn't want it to be true, I believe it is a possibility - which is why I want your country to be prepared IF it ever comes to that "nightmare". When the situation deteriorates, the only ones you can really count to be there on is your very own armed forces. I don't think them yanquis will be there fast enough.

I (just as much as you) would want your country to purge them out of your EEZ and would even pay good money for a front seat to see their illegal structures blasted out of the water - starting with Mischief Reef.







disclaimer- im just a civilian who heard this from what i know is a reliable source:: , pretty much all the bully scafoldings and buoys were blasted either by the PN frogmen or made target practice by aircraft/ships or removed.. the only one untouched was mischief reef because it had opfor personnel on it already. they came in stealthily during typhoon season to build that fisherman's shelter. you can imagine what would have happened if mischief reef was blasted too. as i mentioned earlier, the bully also planted a long tall satellite marker a few miles from pagasa island that was blasted by frogmen, and it was the biggest blast of all that registered on the american spy satellites causing the americans to have a heart attack and scurry to send representatives asking the filipinos to cool it down. it also upset the bully so much that they sent choppers to "buzz" - do intimidation flights over pagasa island
it is much harder today for the AFP to replicate the bravado of 1995 because the bully have really built up their defenses hence the high blood pressures among posters :)
Edited by pachador, Dec 17 2014, 03:06 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MSantor
Member Avatar

PDFF Mod Group
Reuters

Quote:
 
Vietnam calls for 'self-restraint' in disputed South China Sea

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Vietnam and Australia called on Wednesday for "self-restraint" in the South China Sea and warned against the unilateral use of force, an obvious reference to China's increasingly aggressive presence that has stirred concerns across the disputed region.

Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung met Australian counterpart Tony Abbott in Canberra, where they will sign a deal on issues including security and climate change.

Vietnam and other wary Southeast Asian countries have complained about China's controversial policy of land reclamation on disputed isles in the South China Sea. Beijing in turn has said it is not seeking to overturn international order.

(...SNIPPED)


"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MSantor
Member Avatar

PDFF Mod Group
Hanoi and Beijing going to resolve this without Manila?

Reuters

Quote:
 
China, Vietnam pledge peaceful resolution for sea dispute

BEIJING (Reuters) - China and Vietnam have pledged to look for a peaceful resolution to their dispute in the South China Sea via talks, following a meeting between China's president and the head of Vietnam's Communist Party, state news agency Xinhua said on Wednesday.

A joint communique carried by Xinhua said that both countries had a "candid" exchange of views on their maritime spat.

But the two countries agreed to "use well the Sino-Vietnam government border negotiation mechanism, uphold friendly consultations and negotiations to look for a basic and lasting resolution both countries can accept", the statement said.

(...SNIPPED)
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

South China Sea: China Is Building on the Paracels As Well
It’s not just the Spratlys, China is constructing military facilities on the Paracel Islands too.

By Victor Robert Lee - The Diplomat
April 14, 2015




Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MSantor
Member Avatar

PDFF Mod Group
It's already been a year since this happened...

Diplomat

1 Year Later: Reflections on China's Oil Rig 'Sovereignty-Making' in the South China Sea
What is the long-term significance of China’s decision to move an oil rig into Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone in May 2014?


Quote:
 
One year ago, China’s state-owned China National Offshore Oil Company (CNOOC) moved an exploratory oil rig, Haiyang Shiyou 981 (HD-981), worth an estimated $1 billion, into waters within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone. The incident sparked a major bilateral crisis between the two countries—both of whom claim the disputed Paracel Islands. In hindsight, the event marked the start of China’s attempts to change the status quo in the South China Sea by committing its civilian and non-military assets to disputed areas.

The timeline of the HD-981 stand-off was recently featured in the U.S. Department of Defense’s 2015 report on China’s military. On May 3, 2014, Hainan province’s Maritime Safety Administration declared that the oil rig would begin drilling operations off the disputed Paracel Islands, ending in August that year. The next day, Vietnam’s government protested the Chinese announcement. China declared a 3 nautical mile security radius around the oil rig, far exceeding the 500 meter safety zone state parties to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea are entitled to under that treaty.

(...SNIPPED)
Edited by MSantor, May 12 2015, 06:06 AM.
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MSantor
Member Avatar

PDFF Mod Group
Related:

Nikkei

Quote:
 
Vying with China, Cam Ranh Bay is Vietnam's ace in the hole
ATSUSHI TOMIYAMA, Nikkei staff writer
HANOI -- Vietnam is David to China's Goliath when it comes to the strategic competition between the two communist countries. China's gross domestic product is 54 times larger than its southeastern neighbor and its navy is 10 times bigger.

But when it comes to disputed islands in the South China Sea, Vietnam has an ace up its sleeve: Cam Ranh Bay, a natural harbor on Vietnam's central coast. To make the most of its leverage, Hanoi is offering the use of Cam Ranh Bay to Russia and it may do the same for the U.S.

(...SNIPPED)

"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · West Philippine Sea · Next Topic »
Add Reply