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China tightening grip on Spratlys; merge threads, updates
Topic Started: Jun 25 2012, 06:46 PM (30,269 Views)
Sgt.JCOP
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Yan ang hirap sa bago ntin commander-in-chief. Sana maging professional naman siya sa mga pananalita nya. Oo, totoo xa tao pero hwg naman kabastusan sa mga tumutulong sa atin.
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Uruzu
Sep 6 2016, 11:33 AM
And he just pushed away the president of the ONLY nation which is willing to militarily assist the Philippines. And frankly the only option for Philippines, without compromising on sovereignty, is for that nation to intervene diplomatically or even militarily .

Why this cool attitude and colorful language for allies, yet so accommodating to the Bully?

If this keeps up, we will see another Mischief 2.0 or Subic 2.0 (Massively scaled down EDCA).

I wonder what that 'big mouth' will get you. Some may think that the US should give more (at least the better stuff) than what Egypt, Taiwan, Israel, etc. are getting. Continue to push away your allies and your most important ally - perhaps he forgets the MDT - of which most would readily invoke when things go awry and you will get nothing at all.

- WHECs
- Research vessels
- National Command Centre / Coast watch stations
- C-130s / multi mission palletised systems.
- RHIBS / Riverine patrol crafts
- and a lot more items which come 'under the radar'.

You want more from the US? Help yourself first.

Smart? They're not the perfect ally, but they're the best you have. Brilliant leaders cultivate alliances, foolish and delusional leaders destroy them. Well, I never said he was smart.

Who's the imbecile has he been listening to for advice anyway?



Some here can have wet dreams about Russia? I say: "Dream on." It's all about business, and China has the money to spend. You don't. Putin is just another blabber mouth who can't get his country out of the misery he caused and will certainly not go overboard to help you when China comes through the front door.

What's Russia's stand on the PCA ruling again?



















Edited by Hong Nam, Sep 6 2016, 01:22 PM.

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pachador


for so many years, the philippine presidents came mainly from the same high social group or class that puts a lot of emphasis on putting their best foot forward in the eyes of the foreigners, making sure other countries approve of our actions to the point of almost appearing to be fawning and subservient. Pushing back even if peppered by unfriendly remarks is ok by me and is not going to affect overall state of relations for as long as what was fired-off makes sense for the most part. In the case of americans who were on the receiving end of duterte's broadside, they are not as emotional and easily "hurt" as other countries, relatively speaking. Contrast that to many Filipinos or Latinos who will go into a rage at the smallest perceived slights or criticism :) Duterte himself is a perfect example.
Obama himself is taking Duterte's remarks for what it is , and to quote Obama "“Clearly he’s a colorful guy,” Mr. Obama said during a news conference at the end of a summit of the Group of 20 major economies in China. “What I’ve instructed my team to do is to talk to their Philippine counterparts to find out: Is this in fact a time where we can have constructive, productive conversations?” Administration officials didn’t elaborate on the administration’s calculation in canceling the meeting, or whether the talks ordered by Mr. Obama ended without a resolution, but made clear it came in response to Mr. Duterte’s comments Monday. There was no immediate reaction from Manila. Mr. Obama said the U.S. recognizes the significant challenges posed by drug trafficking, but that it needs to be combated in a way that is consistent with international norms. “Undoubtedly, if and when we have a meeting, this is something that’s going to be brought up,” Mr. Obama said.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-may-cancel-meeting-with-philippine-president-rodrigo-duterte-1473090231
so I will bet that Duterte got advance warning or notice of the specifics of what obama was going to bring up so duterte fired-back and obama replied that the meeting will be shelved for another time obviously because it will not be productive. Duterte just has balls even if he has a tendency to shoot his mouth off due to his emotional tendencies :lollol: http://liveinthephilippines.com/content/tener-cojones/

Edited by pachador, Sep 6 2016, 03:12 PM.
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Bastion
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Duterte is a leader of a country and should always be respectful to his fellow president, but also never show any subservience to any other leader, I can easily agree to that. But if somehow, he really had to call another leader --tang ina, is it really Obama who should be the biggest --tang ina, or is it China's Xi who has been stealing our territories, coz it seems to me, that he always holds on his tongue, when speaking about China, even so far as to beg China (on national television) to let our poor fisherman fish on our own seas. It was the first time I saw a person who was recently robbed, talked that respectfully to a thief. I understand that we always have to be watch our tongue when talking to a Goliath, but do we really have to kneel when talking to this giant thief. I think not.
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pachador


Bastion
Sep 6 2016, 02:38 PM
Duterte is a leader of a country and should always be respectful to his fellow president, but also never show any subservience to any other leader, I can easily agree to that. But if somehow, he really had to call another leader --tang ina, is it really Obama who should be the biggest --tang ina, or is it China's Xi who has been stealing our territories, coz it seems to me, that he always holds on his tongue, when speaking about China, even so far as to beg China (on national television) to let our poor fisherman fish on our own seas. It was the first time I saw a person who was recently robbed, talked that respectfully to a thief. I understand that we always have to be watch our tongue when talking to a Goliath, but do we really have to kneel when talking to this giant thief. I think not.
[url] he does not seem to be kneeling here: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/08/duterte-warns-china-south-china-sea-dispute-160824130357007.html[/url]
http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/2008509/it-will-be-bloody-dutertes-warning-china-if-it-attacks

well, he knew he shot his mouth off again: http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/05/politics/philippines-president-rodrigo-duterte-barack-obama/

Edited by pachador, Sep 6 2016, 03:21 PM.
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Hong Nam
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pachador
Sep 6 2016, 01:48 PM
for so many years, the philippine presidents came mainly from the same high social group or class that puts a lot of emphasis on putting their best foot forward in the eyes of the foreigners, making sure other countries approve of our actions to the point of almost appearing to be fawning and subservient.

In the case of americans who were on the receiving end of duterte's broadside, they are not as emotional and easily "hurt" as other countries, relatively speaking.



You are stating that your current president doesn't come from the "same high social group or class" as his predecessors.

So by saying that, you are stating that those who come from a "lower class" don't need approval for their actions as not to appear to being fawning and subservient. Are they expected to be brash and abrasive? Stop trying to rationalise that your president is as such because of his humble beginnings.

Donald Trump has been called 'brash and abrasive'. He comes from the "same high social group or class" like the former Philippine presidents. Is that why he is being hated because he isn't expected to be like that?

Sorry, I almost forgot the highly esteemed Ramon Magsaysay... he came from humble beginnings didn't he? Filipinos don't seem to recall him the same way.


Poverty or humble beginnings isn't a reason for anyone to act as such. That is why you have schools in the first place. It doesn't matter if Americans are not as emotional and easily hurt as people from other countries (as you claim from your experience). You must have lived with the most tolerant people all these 30 years. As for me, I can't say the same. I've lived and worked with some the most emotional and perhaps the most volatile people... and they weren't Asians. Unlike you, I am just unfortunate.

Besides:

- The word "relatively" doesn't exempt everyone from not being "hurt". Does it?
- How certain are you that what Obama (or the ambassador) says out in the open is what he really feels? Are you privy to that? Ever tried reading Wikileaks?
- Or is it that Obama was just acting 'presidential' (unlike yours) despite him not coming from a "high social group"?


Rodrigo Duterte isn't a person sitting under a tree drinking cerveza with his buddies making cat-calls at women passing by. If he was one before, I don't care. He is the president of a country which puts 100 million Filipinos (your compatriots) under a microscope. And when other world leaders and their citizens make derogatory statements against Filipinos like: "A land of beggars, prostitutes, and domestic helpers." - you cry foul. Does this mean they don't cry foul if the tables were turned the other way around? I seriously beg to differ. He is the representative example of a Filipino among the world's eyes. He has forfeited that right to be himself as soon as he swore the oath of presidency.

For the sake of fairness. Where is this kind of talk against China? Oh, I forgot... The Chinese (are not Americans) are sure to take offence. Hence, he should be careful with his language when it comes to them. China is certainly fortunate.

He has been placed in a position which elevates him to the world stage. He should act it even if he isn't one. He doesn't have that luxury anymore.
Most importantly, there is no excuse to being brash and abrasive even to the simplest of people. That's not how humans are supposed to be irregardless if it affects others or not.

The world has standards for national leaders to follow. You are part of that world last time I checked.












Edited by Hong Nam, Sep 6 2016, 05:40 PM.

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Andres Boning
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The problem with our new President is that he thinks he owns the Philippines..

Maybe someone should keep reminding him that he's only a temporary occupant of Malacanang, with a six year term.

Bakit hindi niya kaya makaya murahin ang China ng diretsa, si Xi Jingping sa mga pinag gagawa sa Pilipinas..? Yun ang tanong? Tag team ba sila sa pag bastos sa US? :dunno: :armyskeptic:

I think we are also still waiting, when is he gonna ride the Jetski to go to Panatag Shoal with the PH Flag.. :patrioticpinoy: I can't wait... :armywink: Ang kaso di rin ako mahilig sa "LUGAW"? :armycry:
Edited by Andres Boning, Sep 6 2016, 05:53 PM.
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Hong Nam
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I composed this long ago with help from my Filipino subordinates and my best recollection of the Cebuano language.
Apologies to those who can't understand the dialect.


Daghan nato bugoy sa pagkabata. Eskuwela ta para mo-asenso.
Maminaw ta ni papa ug mama para naay kaugmaon nga maayo.

Uyon mo ang barkada sa inyong anak nga kuyogon sila ug binugoy?
Uyon mo nga inyo maestro motudlo ug binugoy sa inyong mga anak?
Uyon mo nga ang pari sa simbahan hayagan ang mga parokyano sa pagka bugoy?
Uyon mo nga ang doktor ninyo magbinugoy kung naa mo sa ospital?
Uyon mo nga ang inyong abogado ug huwes sa korte mag binugoy?
Uyon mo nga inyong boss sa abroad magbinugoy mo dala kaninyo?

Lipay mo sa inyong presidente sa iyang pagpa-agi sa diplomasiya binugoy?


Kung uyon mo sa tanan. Mao nang rason nga dugay mo asenso.
Mga wala moy nada sa kinabuhi. Wala moy uwaw. Maypa mamatay mo.




If someone gets offended, I offer no apologies. It was written for the very purpose of doing so.







Edited by Hong Nam, Sep 6 2016, 06:12 PM.

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bandofbros
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Hong Nam
Sep 6 2016, 06:09 PM

I composed this long ago with help from my Filipino subordinates and my best recollection of the Cebuano language.
Apologies to those who can't understand the dialect.


Daghan nato bugoy sa pagkabata. Eskuwela ta para mo-asenso.
Maminaw ta ni papa ug mama para naay kaugmaon nga maayo.

Uyon mo ang barkada sa inyong anak nga kuyogon sila ug binugoy?
Uyon mo nga inyo maestro motudlo ug binugoy sa inyong mga anak?
Uyon mo nga ang pari sa simbahan hayagan ang mga parokyano sa pagka bugoy?
Uyon mo nga ang doktor ninyo magbinugoy kung naa mo sa ospital?
Uyon mo nga ang inyong abogado ug huwes sa korte mag binugoy?
Uyon mo nga inyong boss sa abroad magbinugoy mo dala kaninyo?

Lipay mo sa inyong presidente sa iyang pagpa-agi sa diplomasiya binugoy?


Kung uyon mo sa tanan. Mao nang rason nga dugay mo asenso.
Mga wala moy nada sa kinabuhi. Wala moy uwaw. Maypa mamatay mo.




If someone gets offended, I offer no apologies. It was written for the very purpose of doing so.







don't offend us Hong or we'll curse on you. Kidding aside hope you've made a Tagalog poem as well as I don't understand that one.
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pachador


Hong,

I said,"mainly" not all presidents. yes, magsaysay did not come from the same social circle , same with ramos. Anyway,
to elaborate on high social class. there are different groupings in the philippines, the one I most referring to is the manila-based one which is closely connected with big manila businessmen who have interests in china- they are more self-conscious lols.
by the way, duterte is not exactly from humble beginnings, although he did not grow up with the manila upper class:
http://lifestyle.inquirer.net/229627/kanto-boy-duterte-is-so-de-buena-familia-sa-totoo-lang
in the provinces specially in mindanao there is a frontier "cowboy" culture not only among the lower classes in the rural areas but also among the upper classes specially those who are ranchers and agri-businessmen/farmers. Guns are a necessity. They are more "rough on the edges" and straight-talking relatively speaking compared to those in manila. i know because i am from mindanao. I studied and lived both in manila and mindanao, and i can see a big difference in the softness, but hey, thats just my life experiences since i grew up on a ranch in mindanao. I'm sure others have different life experiences http://www.philippinestudies.net/files/journals/1/articles/2996/public/2996-3516-1-PB.pdf



Edited by pachador, Sep 7 2016, 01:49 AM.
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