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| Philippines & Vietnam in the South China Sea; updates, discussions | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 29 2012, 08:20 PM (1,954 Views) | |
| Pninety8 | Oct 8 2014, 10:53 PM Post #101 |
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Joining Forces in South China Sea Defense Procurement (thediplomat.com)
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| MSantor | Oct 17 2014, 09:56 PM Post #102 |
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Interaksyon
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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| Hong Nam | Oct 21 2014, 09:57 PM Post #103 |
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Bought by China
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The South China Sea and Joint Defense Procurement Can ASEAN members join forces on defense procurement? It's more complex than it seems. By Koh Swee Lean Collin October 20, 2014 Warships Do Matter Both the Philippines and Vietnam have separate coastguards distinct from navies, which means having to divide scarce national resources between them. Competition for funding can influence the numbers of coastguard vessels that can be procured in lieu of navy warships. One ought not to be too sanguine about convincing defense planners in Hanoi and Manila of the necessity to buy more coastguard-type patrol vessels instead of warships. How Many to Build? A major hurdle is that participants need to agree on these basic technical requirements that are subject to differing threat perceptions and operational needs. Deeper thinking is also required about the numbers of ships required to hit the minimum threshold for economies of scale. Each participant needs to have a long-term perspective of potential security challenges and the operational, technical and fiscal requirements to sustain this capability. The time taken by defense establishments, each imbued with its own set of cultures and doctrines, to reach consensus can be lengthy. Moreover, the question is whether joint procurement involving just two participants can really achieve economies of scale. Evolving threat perceptions and priorities also pose risks to commitments. Not Simply About Building More The point about less technically capable patrol craft or cutters deserves attention. Ships optimized for EEZ operations represent a different category altogether. EEZ-optimized patrol vessels in today's market are designed with contemporary and future maritime security challenges in mind. These ships are of course less expensive than technologically complex warships but this does not mean they are inexpensive to purchase, especially if they are required in significant number. The oil rig standoff made Hanoi realize that its future patrol assets also require strengthened hulls robust enough to withstand ramming by Chinese vessels. Such technical enhancements entail further costs. If such patrol vessels already cost more, will the Philippines and Vietnam be able to procure them in appreciable quantity even with economies of scale factored in? And bear in mind that construction and delivery of the ships is not all: Maintenance and repair, fuel, training and infrastructural costs all have to be considered. Political Winds of Influence Defense procurements - unilateral or joint - cannot be trivialized as a commercial enterprise. Defense procurements are political issues. Japan with its recent relaxation of arms export policy and a prime minister more predisposed towards policies that incur Beijing's displeasure. Yet political interests do not stay static, especially with changes to the incumbent political party or prime minister. Foot-dragging over political sensitivities can cause delays resulting in valuable opportunity costs for the buyers. By the time Tokyo decides to risk setting back Sino-Japanese ties even further by selling ships to a Philippine-Vietnam joint purchase, China may have already raced ahead with more ships and consolidated control over the SCS. Modus Vivendi Over the SCS? Hanoi and Manila have long cooperated to some degree in the South China Sea but recent camaraderie. Despite the misgivings over the oil rig incident, Hanoi took rapid steps thereafter to improve ties with China and hesitated at following Manila in referring the Scarborough Shoal dispute with Beijing to international arbitration. Manila's Kalayaan Island Group overlaps into Vietnam's Truong Sa claims and these two countries also have a history of bilateral maritime incidents. There is no guarantee that just because both are ASEAN members, they will not come to blows in the SCS in the future, as the Thai-Cambodian border clashes attest. For now, the Philippines and Vietnam enjoy a convergence of interests in the SCS but what about the future and its implications for any joint defense procurement? The Diplomat Edited by Hong Nam, Oct 21 2014, 11:52 PM.
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| Hong Nam | Nov 17 2014, 12:06 PM Post #104 |
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Bought by China
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US think tank: Philippines illegally occupying 2 islands in Spratlys By Camille Diola (philstar.com) November 12, 2014 Philippine claims to Scarborough Shoal and the Kalayaan Island Group outside the main archipelago. CNA Graphics While the Philippines has a superior legal claim to the China-controlled Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, it is "illegally occupying" two other small islands in the Kalayaan (Spratly) island group claimed by Vietnam, a research firm said. Researchers from Virginia-based think tank CNA argued that the Philippines cannot lawfully classify the whole Kalayaan group under its sovereignty. At least two of the maritime features under Kalayaan - Thitu (Pagasa) Island and Loaita (Kota) Island - also claimed by Vietnam devolve from a legal annexation document issued by the French colony in 1933. The annexation was backed by France's maritime activities prior to World War II as well as evidence that the claims were not abandoned after the war, the paper noted. It is also possible that Northeast Cay (Panata Island) should be included the list of unlawful Philippine occupations, "but more evidence is needed," it said. The study, meanwhile, credits the Philippines for having superior claims based on "effective occupations" and "first discovery" of four high-tide features in Kalayaan, namely, West York (Likas) Island, Nanshan (Lawak) Island, Flat (Patag) Island and Lankiam (Parola) Cay. Philstar |
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| Hong Nam | Nov 17 2014, 12:23 PM Post #105 |
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Bought by China
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An interesting report that's understood better if read from cover to cover. But if you want to instantly grab the concept of my preceding post (or just simply to lazy) move straight to page 54 of this research paper....
Edited by Hong Nam, Nov 17 2014, 12:59 PM.
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| Andres Boning | Nov 17 2014, 06:37 PM Post #106 |
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PH Illegally occupying 2 islands in Spratly? Let them "Think the Tank!" If they can ask all the rest or each one of the claimants, occupants in Spratly's to move out first, only then PH can consider moving out (if ever) and would be the last one to follow. "Mauna muna sila" Bakit? How far is the Vietnam mainland's proximity to Spratly Islands, compared to Philippines (Palawan)?? Hence this "Pala-isipan"; O baka naman mas makaya nila kasi bolahin ang Vietnam kaysa sa atin in the future??? "It's all about the Oil!" Edited by Andres Boning, Nov 17 2014, 06:58 PM.
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| Hong Nam | Nov 17 2014, 09:55 PM Post #107 |
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Bought by China
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Hence the statement...
** It does not take sides. It just brings out into the open for those who have "little" understanding on the issues at hand and what each country has for an argument. - Which is why it is best read out in its entirety. ** The Philippines' claim is of particular significance to U.S. policy makers because of the U.S. - Phil MDT of 1951 and how it might involve the U.S. in a conflict with China. - Which is why the U.S. is vague with regards to defending you if the Spratly Islands are attacked while outright supporting the Japanese on the Senkaku Islands. ** It sucks big time. However, both our objections to this does not change the facts. Unfortunately, according to international law... It's the only thing that matters. Only by knowing what the problems are first is one being able to solve it. You are supposed to face it head-on. Our opinions are based on emotions and what little knowledge we have of the law. Which sadly doesn't amount to anything. Edited by Hong Nam, Nov 19 2014, 04:26 PM.
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| MSantor | Nov 30 2014, 11:08 AM Post #108 |
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Vietnam and Philippine naval joint patrols? Note the highlighted portion in the article below. Reuters
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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| Ayoshi | Apr 20 2015, 04:07 PM Post #109 |
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PHL, Vietnam ironing out details of strategic partnership amid China’s reclamation work | gma news - April 20, 2015
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| MSantor | May 9 2015, 10:01 PM Post #110 |
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ABS-CBN
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"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford "Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton | |
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