Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
US & China Square Off Over South China Sea
Topic Started: Jul 12 2012, 01:32 PM (27,754 Views)
Parastriker
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Uruzu
Jul 16 2012, 07:51 PM
Personal opinion.

Personally I dont agree with Zimmerman's view of ''it doesn't matter we have no bases as we have carriers''

The only permanently forward deployed one is USS George Washington. And even though it is forward deployed in Western Pacific, it is still quite far away, in Yokosuka, Tokyo Bay.

Yes other CBGs routinely pass through the West Phillpine Sea / SCS when they finish their stuff in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean. But my point (below) still stands:

--- Unless the US has some magical foresight we have not witnessed before, the CBGs will not respond fast enough, or in numbers effective enough, giving their current basing situation.

And lets not talk about the three or four carriers based in San Deigo and Washington State (Not D.C.). The war will be over by the time these get to the West Philippine Sea.

And not lets look at USAF assets. The Silver Bullet F-22s. the upgraded F-15s with state of the art AESM radars, B-1s, and the future F-35s (which is having trouble with delays but has impressive sensor and link capabilities, plus the agility of an F-16). Where can they operate from at the moment? The ones in Osan, Busan, Iwakuni, Atsugi and Misawa are irrelevant. They are too far away. So that leaves us:

- Anderson AB in Guam
- Kadena AB in Okinawa

Even from these two bases, it is very unrealistic to support operations in the WPS. From Kadena the planes have to fly along the Chinese coast just to reach WPS.
And the great distances involved from the two bases mean lots of tankers needed. LOTS. And they are susceptible to stuff like the J-20. Yes you can send additional assets to escort the tankers, but that will increase the burden of the tanker force considerably.

So there comes my second point:

--Giving current basing situations, the USAF will not be able to maintain combat patrols/ops (for air dominance) in a mass level , and on an extended period of time, during wartime.

The current ''basing 4 weak ass LCS in Singapore'' plan doesn't cut it. A single corvette from the Singaporean or Vietnamese navy will have more antiship or AA power than all these 4 LCS combined.

My final point:

Given the China's hypocritical behaviours of intimidating opponents with large fleets (whether military, semi-military, civilian, or a combination of those), while accusing her neighbours of hyping up the situation, sooner or later a conflict is gonna erupt. Maybe not with Phillipines, but more likely with countries with a stronger spine (No offense, but its the truth) such as Vietnam.

The US needs to establish a military hub within close proximity of the WPS. Big enough to house another forward deployed CBG, and enough to accommodative large amounts of aircraft during wartime.

Some people may argue the point of potential ballistic missile attacks. Well then, that's why billions are spent of stuff like the Patriot-3s, Aegis ships' BMD upgrades and THAAD.

And one more point.

--Closing Clark, Subic. BIG MISTAKE.

I'll try to provide the reason these things were said/done;

First, Subic. Easy answer; the politicians back then had an inflated ego and think with their d*cks, not with their brains.

Second, the reason why the statement " it doesn't matter we have no bases as we have carriers'' was said.

He is quite confident of the intelligence capability America has on the dear old reddies.

I agree though that the ships at Yokushuka Bay are too far to be of any use.

USAF is quite constricted on this issue. That is quite correct, although wrong in a few minor details.

Although B-1s at Anderson AB/Kadena AB in Guam might prove useful, if not confronted by AA-armed J-20s.

But, it might become realistic to stage aerial attacks from Kadena if the aircraft stationed there are REAL stealth aircraft (not that F-35 pushover), like the B-2 for an instance.

Also, the Philippines will not be the reason if a war erupts there. For now, frankly speaking, we're just too d*mn small.

Also, about the LCS at dear old Singapore; they are not there for fighting. They are there for enforcing U.S.' "gunboat diplomacy"

FINAL POINT: You're quite correct on the analysis of the oncoming days.
:thumbsup:
Success through information, victory through disinformation.

"Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers."

"Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Parastriker
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
Real Macoy
Jul 16 2012, 08:04 PM
Mckoyzzz
Jul 16 2012, 02:28 PM
In relation to your posts, Spear... here's another article

Quote:
 

China Announces How It Would Go To War Against The US Fleet
Robert Johnson  | Jun. 11, 2012, 7:22 AM

The U.S. has made no secret that it's pulling its focus from the Middle East and directing military attention to the Pacific, and now China is pushing back.

The Economic Times reports China is increasing its conventional missile capability to carry out multiple launches, the one tactic that could overwhelm a Navy ship's defenses and cripple its abilities.

Tan Weihong, Commander of China's Second Artillery Force says, "Conventional missiles are a trump card in modern warfare. So we must be ready at any time. We must be able to deliver a quick response to attacks, hit the targets with high accuracy, and destroy them totally. Of the 114 missiles [our brigade]  has launched so far, all have accurately hit the target."

For each incoming missile a U.S. Navy ship will have to perform some variation of the following actions:

First it will launch a long-range air defense missile, like a SM-2ER. If that fails, then a shorter range missile like the ESSM (Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile) will go out — then the ship's main deck guns will fire anti-air rounds with fused airburst shells.

Surviving missiles will be engaged by close-in weapons systems like the Mk-15 Phalanx or the RAM (Rolling Airframe Missile). Any incoming missiles struck by these systems will be so close, and moving so fast, that incoming shrapnel and debris would likely be unavoidable.

While all these "Hard Kill" options are going on, the ship's electronic warfare systems will have been trying to jam the incoming missile, offering the missile a false target, while firing off chaff (for radar guided weapons) and flares (for infrared guided weapons).

All that for every single missile, so if China can send off several at once directed at the same ship, the chances of success on their part may increase exponentially.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china-annou...6#ixzz20lQ4WfOp


It seemed, China's strategy is swarming or overwhelming the enemy with sheer numbers... However, I doubt if this would be the case as I believed that if ever that US and China goes to war, I believe the US will bomb the hell out of China's communications center, missile launch sites, mobile-missile launchers, etc... with heavy bombers, air-strikes, cruise missiles, while maybe at the same time using Growlers (radar jamming jet fighters) for defense...

Hahaha! I think the Chinese have forgotten that they are surrounded by US Allied Countries and before they can even launch their planned missile attack on the Americans, Beijing will be very busy fending off rains of fire coming from N,E,S,W.

They will be busy catching Tomahawk Missiles launched from US Subs (60) F-22 Raptors hitting on major strategic areas and (80) F-16's, F-18's (dog fight intercepting Missions) just for the first wave, obliterating their Air Force and Navy before they can even embarked. :armyLol:

This crisis is turning out like a Nuclear war; the Chinese have the first-strike capability (invasion capability), while the Allies only have second-strike (like what you said).

The Chinese aren't going to back down from a fight. Their pride's too big for that.
Success through information, victory through disinformation.

"Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers."

"Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Real Macoy
Trainee
[ *  * ]
Closing Clark and Subic, not yet too late!

Remember that they are currently scouting and planning to open up more Air/ Naval Bases.

We'll be giving free infos for the Chinks if we continue, so let's not....!
There are other top secret plans that the public doesn't know about, but one thing is for sure a bully will tend to pick on the lease capable target, more so if that particular target can serve as a springboard.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Real Macoy
Trainee
[ *  * ]
Quote:
 
The Chinese aren't going to back down from a fight. Their pride's too big for that.

It will all be over before they can even think of their pride, even their previous show off before when they tried to shoot down their satellite in space won't be of any useful.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
AZKALS
Member Avatar


US senator Jim Webb has urged the US State Dept. to clarify the current situation on China's recent actions in the SCS and report back to the congress ... :war:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international-business/us-senator-slams-beijing-over-its-south-china-sea-policy/articleshow/15157993.cms
Edited by AZKALS, Jul 26 2012, 08:08 PM.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
seWer Rat
Member Avatar
amateur sewer cleaner

U.S. Plans New Asia Missile Defenses

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444812704577605591629039400.html

Updated August 23, 2012, 12:58 a.m. ET

By ADAM ENTOUS And JULIAN E. BARNES

The U.S. is planning a major expansion of missile defenses in Asia, a move American officials say is designed to contain threats from North Korea, but one that could also be used to counter China's military.

The planned buildup is part of a defensive array that could cover large swaths of Asia, with a new radar in southern Japan and possibly another in Southeast Asia tied to missile-defense ships and land-based interceptors.

====

A centerpiece of the new effort would be the deployment of a powerful early-warning radar, known as an X-Band, on an undisclosed southern Japanese island, said U.S. defense officials. The Pentagon is discussing that prospect with Japan, one of Washington's closest regional allies. The radar could be installed within months of Japan's agreement, American officials said, and would supplement an X-Band the U.S. positioned in Aomori Prefecture in northern Japan in 2006.

A Japanese Ministry of Defense spokesman said the government wouldn't comment. The U.S. and Japan have ruled out deploying the new radar to Okinawa, a southern island whose residents have long chafed at the U.S. military forces' presence there.

Officials with the U.S. military's Pacific Command and Missile Defense Agency have also been evaluating sites in Southeast Asia for a third X-Band radar to create an arc that would allow the U.S. and its regional allies to more accurately track any ballistic missiles launched from North Korea, as well as from parts of China.

Some U.S. defense officials have focused on the Philippines as the potential site for the third X-Band, which is manufactured by Raytheon Co. Pentagon officials said a location has yet to be determined and that discussions are at an early stage.

Posted Image
To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
spearhead
Member Avatar
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The X-Band will be a great additional to the philippines' planned coastal radar defense and other land-based missile defense systems. I hope the philippine government would go for it.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Furbolling
Member Avatar
Member
[ *  *  * ]
and put a Tactical High Altitude Air Defense System(THAAD) in the Philippines will further more isolate the nuclear missile system of China.
Posted Image

"Brothers!! What we do in life, Echoes through Eternity"
-Maximus
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

U.S. Plans New Asia Missile Defenses

Quote:
 
China's Ministry of National Defense didn't comment directly on the anti-missile plans, but sounded a cautious note.

"China has always believed that anti-missile issues should be handled with great discretion, from the perspective of protecting global strategic stability and promoting strategic mutual trust among all countries," it said in a statement on Thursday. "We advocate that all parties fully respect and be mindful of the security concerns of one another and try to realize overall safety through mutual benefit and win-win efforts, while avoiding the situation in which one country tries to let its own state security take priority over other countries' national security."

In a separate statement, China's Foreign Ministry said it hopes the U.S. "will carefully handle this problem out of concern for maintaining the global and regional strategic balance and stability, and promoting the strategic mutual trust among all countries."

Read more


China loves to say things and do the exact opposite. Mutual trust? Respect? Be mindful of the security concerns of one another?

They have comedians in government now?
And look at the regional bully... Do they sound worried to you? I say they are.

Bring that X-band radar and the THAAD into the Philippines. I wouldn't be surprised someone might even donate property to have those in the country. :ssalute:
Edited by Hong Nam, Aug 23 2012, 10:40 PM.

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

Hong Nam
Aug 23 2012, 10:37 PM

China's Foreign Ministry said it hopes the U.S. "will carefully handle this problem out of concern for maintaining the global and regional strategic balance and stability, and promoting the strategic mutual trust among all countries."


U.S. will carefully handle this problem?

What problem? Is this a problem? It's more of a solution! :brrt:

What say you?

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · West Philippine Sea · Next Topic »
Add Reply