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Philippines-China WPS Dispute
Topic Started: Jul 15 2012, 02:28 PM (105,139 Views)
pachador


later this year or early next year, 2016, ITLOS will have issued its ruling on which areas belong to us which means, the officials have no more excuse not to order physical enforcement even if we are weak since we now have the legal protection of U.N. through ITLOS plus its much easier for our allies to justify coming to our aid if things escalate.
What this means is we need a strong action-oriented leader who is fearless because our national security and future as a country is at stake. Among the candidates right now, only Duterte has that description. he is not perfect but do we really want a corrupt or indecisive or consensus-type leader starting 2016 ? it will be dangerous times starting next year, unless we elect a leader who will just surrender our rights.

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pachador


the headline title is misleading, please read carefully one of the paragraphs, and you will realize that once ITLOS issues the ruling, the U.S. will know which are legally recognized areas by UN/ITLOS where it can come to our aid :
"We understand the treaty, it does not include the West Philippine Sea, and so we want to develop our own capabilities. When the time comes that we will be on our own, given the training with the Americans, we can do it on our own," Catapang said in an interview with ABS-CBN News. "It’s a contested area. Until now it's in the international tribunal, so we have to be realistic."


Andres Boning
Apr 24 2015, 08:59 AM
AFP chief: We're on our own against China
04/23/2015 11:19 PM
by Gigi Grande, ABS-CBN News

MANILA - Armed Forces Chief of Staff Gregorio Catapang has admitted Filipino soldiers will have to go it alone if armed conflict erupts in the West Philippine Sea between the Philippines and China.

Catapang said the United States would not come to the defense of Manila, its long-time ally.

"We understand the treaty, it does not include the West Philippine Sea, and so we want to develop our own capabilities. When the time comes that we will be on our own, given the training with the Americans, we can do it on our own," Catapang said in an interview with ABS-CBN News. "It’s a contested area. Until now it's in the international tribunal, so we have to be realistic."

Catapang was referring to the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) between the Philippines and United States, which compels both nations to come to each other's defense if an external armed attack occurs in metropolitan areas, island territories in the Pacific Ocean, or armed forces, vessels, and aircraft in the Pacific. The MDT makes no mention of the South China Sea, also known as the West Philippine Sea.??? WHAAAAT??? :lollol: :headbang:

http://mobile.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/04/23/15/afp-chief-were-our-own-against-china/

----
Eh OGAG pala itong si Catapang eh, di manlang nag tanong kay "Siri" lollol! Di kaya kay "Google" bago nag salita sa press.. :dunno: Hay buhay tuwid na daan? Bagay nga KAYO NG AMO MO!

FYI: The South China Sea or West Philippine Sea is part of the South West Pacific Area!
You will never develop anything like the capabilities that you want for the AFP just by talking, but by start doing something..



My apologies Mods, Admins! Nakakagigil kasi katangs nito, AFP CoS pa naman, absent yata ng tinuro sa kanila yung "Less talk, less mistake!" :armyroleyes:


Edited by pachador, Apr 25 2015, 03:05 AM.
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Andres Boning
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@Pachador,

It's not misleading, but he really doesn't understand I believe or he's just trying to deceive the people in a way and has other motives. Technically, being the AFP Chief of staff, he shouldn't be saying this kind of things.
After the Mamasapano, the way these people reacted, handled everything it clearly shows their true colors with regards to their true personality, how unbecoming, they are nowhere near the likes and reasoning, intellect of the formers... They are all like a bunch of circus acts, sad to say...

The MDT is the only thing why China can't or won't even touch our Soldiers in KIG, even our Govt assets, they can easily overrun our Soldiers within minutes if they want to, but they can't or won't even try because of our treaty w/ the US. In any case they attack our troops anywhere in KIG, definitely we can respond in self defense and the US will/ should help and respond kindly to them under the MDT.

However, if we try to start any trouble or fires the first shot or we try to do what the chinese are doing to us by claiming other Countries territories, to be engaged on illegal activites etc., then this will not trigger MDT with the US. These are also stated, included on the agreement.

FYI: What I'm puzzled about right now is that, as I remember, from FVR, Erap, to GMA, we have been strict exercising maximum tolerance in any kind of intrusions on PH territories. We are used to fire warning shots at intruders to scare the away in Panatag Shoal with our PF11, F-5's to blow up illegal structures, markers around Mischief Reef and other territories close to our mainland all the time. WHY ARE THEY NOT PRACTICING THAT KIND OF APPROACH NOW???

We are able to apply and do this kind of approach as part of our rights, to secure and protect our territories, under our laws, we are more confident because of the MDT as well.

All are practiced as normal protocol of any given Country, under UNCLOS 200 nm EEZ boundaries.

When PNoy's term started, a few months after, he visited China Aug 2011, then 8mos after, the Scarborough stand off happened April 2012, the big changes in dealing with intrusions, all the things we use to do above was not applicable anymore, it all started at the same time, as directed by the CiC. Considering all these happenings under the present, try to include the fiascos, cancellations, delays, priority purchases, expected delivery dates etc. with regards to AFPM, all of which coincides with China's fast paced movements in WPS, as if their due date comes 2016.. do you think it's just coincidence??? :dunno:

By the time we accomplished & have something that we can use to secure and protect our territories in WPS, it's already too late...



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pachador


hi Boning,
Concerning the 200 mile law of the sea, yes, in theory, it means those disputed areas within 200 miles are ours. The problem is that the bully is not reasonable -if they were, they would not be building those artificial islands or threaten our fishermen. in other words they are ready to use force now because they are much better equipped. Years ago , we can use force because the bully never forced the issue too much, but because of all these overwhelming force displays,the philippines had to make double-sure about what we really own legally speaking - before we use force against an overpowering foe before using physical enforcement again by bringing a case to ITLOS. the bully is so insistent on their so-called "indisputable sovereignty" going against the UN law of the sea that we are dealing here with an irrational bully that is looking for an excuse to punish small countries. Therefore, if we want our allies to come to aid without hesitation, we and they need to make sure that legally speaking, we are in the clear , on the areas we own. In other words, the ITLOS case will reinforce the 200 mile law of the sea with specific reference to the west philippine sea which will nullify or negate whatever claims the bully has on their indisputable sovereignty. the ITLOS ruling once released is final and cannot be appealed.
Edited by pachador, Apr 25 2015, 01:00 PM.
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Andres Boning
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@pach,

I understand where you're coming from bro, my analysis on our problems on territorial issues, particularly in KIG, WPS etc. only got worse after Noy became President, the passive approach tells it all.

From FVR, Erap to GMA, we are able to apply our laws and we use calculated force if needed in dealing with territorial intrusions and those are facts. We use PF-11 to patrol Scarborough shoal and nearby areas before, firing warning shots all the time, just to keep intruders at bay or outside our jurisdiction/ territories or blow up illegal structures, markers, in Mischief Reef and nearby areas without hesitations.

That's how we deal with territorial intrusions back then and it works.

like I said, it seems like all these happenings coincide also with the AFPM "show" BUT, take note of what are being prioritized, cancellation delays, expected date of deliveries etc. which mostly in timed 2016 onwards?? Again, if we try to take into account what China accomplished and or trying to accomplish with it's illegal activities in the WPS, KIG area and up to this very moment.. The deadline is 1st half of 2016. Coincidence????
Edited by Andres Boning, Apr 25 2015, 04:00 PM.
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MSantor
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PDFF Mod Group
ABS-CBN

Quote:
 
China fires back at PH, claimants with reclamation accusations

Posted at 04/29/2015 8:07 PM
BEIJING - After facing weeks of criticism about its reclamation work on disputed islands in the South China Sea, China on Wednesday turned the tables on Vietnam, the Philippines and others by accusing them of carrying out their own illegal building work.

China claims 90 percent of the South China Sea, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas, with overlapping claims from Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

Recent satellite images show China has made rapid progress in building an airstrip suitable for military use in the Spratly Islands and may be planning another

(...SNIPPED)
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." - Henry Ford

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill


"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking"- Gen. George S. Patton
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Andres Boning
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MSantor
Apr 29 2015, 10:17 PM
ABS-CBN

Quote:
 
China fires back at PH, claimants with reclamation accusations

Posted at 04/29/2015 8:07 PM
BEIJING - After facing weeks of criticism about its reclamation work on disputed islands in the South China Sea, China on Wednesday turned the tables on Vietnam, the Philippines and others by accusing them of carrying out their own illegal building work.

China claims 90 percent of the South China Sea, which is believed to be rich in oil and gas, with overlapping claims from Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan.

Recent satellite images show China has made rapid progress in building an airstrip suitable for military use in the Spratly Islands and may be planning another

(...SNIPPED)
China does have a big problem, they are very thick headed, super CRAZY, all basis of all their claims, arguments are all based on LIES!

-aside from historical maps from other foreign Countries that occupied the Philippines that pre-dates all of Chinese fake claims..
-as far as I know, correct me if I'm wrong, the Philippines was the first one to claim and build structures in KIG since Coloma, the 1960s- 1970s under Pres. Marcos.
those structures up to now are almost the same, especially when we signed the 2002? DoC between claimants and if there are legitimate VIOLATORS, who built and developed their respective controlled areas, the most NO.1 on the list is China, followed by the other claimants and not the PHILIPPINES.
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pachador


is this for real ??? OMG - this is too much if it is true :( http://www.untvradio.com/exclusive-lupang-pantambak-ng-china-sa-west-philippine-sea-galing-umano-ng-zambales/
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Andres Boning
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There's a big probability that it's TRUE! Remember there were reports before regarding illegal "Black sand mining" etc. in Zambales, by an alleged Chinese firm, they use them for part of making weapons of some sort..?

last time I heard Chinese illegal activities in Zambales are being looked after by a certain retired AFP/ PNP General, who's now a politiko in Zambales..?

Can you guys imagine all of these Chinese illegal activities, internal and external territorial sides of PH, all happening very rampant, under PNoy's term..???

WHY ON EARTH THE GOVT. is not doing anything to STOP them, once and for all?!!!
If China is already trying to build structures in Panatag shoal:headbang:
Edited by Andres Boning, May 1 2015, 05:50 AM.
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Vermonter
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LOL! China using sand fill from Zambales Province to build up their falsely claimed outposts and runways in the West Philippine Sea.
Edited by Vermonter, May 1 2015, 06:09 AM.
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