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Philippines-China WPS Dispute
Topic Started: Jul 15 2012, 02:28 PM (105,208 Views)
lionking66
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Parastriker
Aug 21 2012, 05:06 PM
lionking66
Aug 21 2012, 03:49 PM
Parastriker
Aug 20 2012, 07:36 AM
steelDUST
Aug 19 2012, 07:55 PM
Matagal na po yan, Sir Z.

Since the chicoms started to set up installations on their claims, they've been secretly putting up SAMs, ASMs, radars, sonars, ELINTs, etc.

And the chicoms ARE hellbent in "protecting" and "dying" for their claims in WPS. The question now remains: when will be the day that THEY will "cause" a reason to start the war.
Well, as far as I know, we could equate that to the amount of time left before oil prices start to get high for the Chinese or the amount of time left for the Politburo to remain patient.
Posted Image

Source: International Defense Review 5/1994 p.10


The diagram as shown depicts the operational range/radius of the earlier SU-27s acquired by China. It shows that the aircraft flying out from Hainan can reach as far as Manila to the East, Ho Chi Minh city to the South and short of Singapore to include the northern tip of Borneo. Palawan and the KIG are not depicted but needless to say that they are covered likewise.

It clearly tells us that the aircraft can provide the necessary air support for their ships either in Carburo or any shoal, reef, island in the contested area. The only limiting factor is its loiter time. Adding to this vulnerabilityi is its turn around time- take off, engage,return and land,refuel and rearm and take off again. Plus of course, pilot fatigue! I dont have to elucidate further about the reach of the latest PRC acquisition of SU-30 MKKs!

Given these circumstances, our proximity- Subic for Carburo,and Purto for KIG, still gives us a distinct advantage which we can exploit! Hence our sea and air assets are two sides of the same defense coin. It becomes imperative therefore that the rate of upgrade must be on the same page.
What is that? Combat Radius or Maximum range?

Those two are different things, mind you.

EDIT: I read operational range. What kind? Light ops or heavy ops?
Combat Radius with Max External Fuel (Miles)
Edited by lionking66, Aug 21 2012, 06:24 PM.
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steelDUST
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Beijing knows that this data is at best very risky. Hence, they invest in aircraft carriers that can shorten the Su-30's operational range to lengthen or add it's loiter time.
"Thou must (in commanding and winning, or serving and losing, suffering or triumphing) be either the anvil or the hammer."
- Goethe
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lionking66
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steelDUST
Aug 21 2012, 07:14 PM
Beijing knows that this data is at best very risky. Hence, they invest in aircraft carriers that can shorten the Su-30's operational range to lengthen or add it's loiter time.
Agree fully Steeldust with your assessment! It might still take a decade or more for them to attain operational efficiency in operating a carrier battle group to include pilot proficiency.
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steelDUST
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lionking66
Aug 21 2012, 07:51 PM
steelDUST
Aug 21 2012, 07:14 PM
Beijing knows that this data is at best very risky. Hence, they invest in aircraft carriers that can shorten the Su-30's operational range to lengthen or add it's loiter time.
Agree fully Steeldust with your assessment! It might still take a decade or more for them to attain operational efficiency in operating a carrier battle group to include pilot proficiency.
Not decade.

They've been training for that since their refurbished Russian-built carrier has been in operation since a couple of years ago.

And by 2018 they'll add another 2 carriers. Meaning, they already attained their initial carrier op requirement/s so that by that time (2018) they're fully capable in 1 or 2 carriers for muscle-flexing in WPS...

We need at least full complement of air defense missile system + anti-ship battery in Palawan and Luzon. Plus at least 3 hunter-killer subs (Amur or Type 214 or Scorpene or Sauro) with BM capability to keep the chicoms guessing where and when we're going to strike/retaliate.
"Thou must (in commanding and winning, or serving and losing, suffering or triumphing) be either the anvil or the hammer."
- Goethe
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lionking66
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The Varyag has not yet been fully operational ! At best it is still on sea trial status. They are still having problems with the catapult or ski-jump.
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Frenzy
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Veteran Beijing watcher cautions against protracted conflict over West PH Sea


MANILA - The Philippines should exercise restraint in its territorial disputes with China, as a protracted conflict will injure local businessmen, the former Beijing bureau chief of ABC News said on Wednesday.

"The issue of sovereignty put it on the back burner. We should try to normalize our tourism and trade relations," Chito Sta. Romana told members of the Makati Business Club.

Sta. Romana, who spent four decades covering China, said the Philippines must "exercise restraint and resort to quiet, patient diplomacy to prevent armed conflict."

Manila has been engaged in a spat with Beijing over Scarborough Shoal and other areas in the West Philippine Sea that are believed to hold vast reserves of oil and natural gas.

Sta. Romana said both sides should “find a way to have a mutually accepted contract or formula that will allow us to jointly explore” areas such as the Recto Bank, which private companies earlier said hold oil reserves bigger than the Malampaya natural gas field.

While both sides had limited military action to posturing and the deployment of sea vessels, the battle has been engaged in the tourism and trade fronts. Chinese travel agencies had imposed a ban on tour packages to the Philippines, while Beijing has tightened quarantine requirements on Mindanao’s Cavendish bananas.

"The Philippines is considered a hostile country" by many Chinese, Sta. Romana said.

Makati Business Club executive director Peter Angelo Perfecto told InterAksyon.com that businessmen do not want the dispute to go on for a long time.

"Within our membership, there have been concerns raised, but really more for the long-term, because if this continues further and gets prolonged, then the impact will be, of course, quite bad," Perfecto said.

"Right now it's not yet a major issue, but it is a concern because we don't want to prolong it," he said.

"China might start using that economic card more aggressively; that's what we don't want," he added.
http://www.interaksyon.com/business/41142/veteran-beijing-watcher-cautions-against-protracted-conflict-over-west-ph-sea
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spearhead
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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zwahzhal
Aug 19 2012, 04:51 PM
Parastriker
Aug 19 2012, 04:17 PM
zwahzhal
Aug 19 2012, 03:29 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, this may have been kept away from media... Chinese has prepared their missiles not only to Taiwan but also, July 2012, pointing PH and Vietnam. Plus, in the Spratly's, they have missiles that can reach our soil. Their act of agression is a very obvious sign of planning to conquer PH sovereignty one-by-one. Sooner or later, they will fabricate another old map saying that Palawan is historically part of China and should belong to China no matter what the cause.
That fact is secret from the mainstream media, but I kinda knew it.

It's not only Palawan, Mr. Z. As much as I want to post "other potential places of imminent danger" a person has a figurative pistol over my head now.
It was kept away from public information due to media blackout and several consequences but unfortunately, the PH sovereignty is being sacrificed and I cannot swallow such happening. There are silent movements by the govt but there has still been no concrete action to strictly implement the rule of law, and the code of conduct legally. We must act more, we must do more. Our PH sovereignty is in the lower level of the balance.

Calling on PNoy and Sec. Del Rosario, we need a concrete action to strictly implement the rule of law, and the code of conduct legally, our constitution, the legal laws of the seas. We must act now. Send our dedicated Army and Marines in our own lands, put up the PH flag. THIS IS OUR SOVEREIGNTY, OUR NATION, OUR CONSTITUTION. Review your papers...we have a mandate to protect our people, our nation, our constituion. Chinese piracy and conquering in our own land (w/c is some only of the spratly's, and the scarborough) is an act of aggression and disregard to the legal and binding laws.

For everyone's A10TZUN.


Samir_Duran
Aug 15 2012, 12:24 PM
As what I have said before on one of my posts here somewhere that our Republic is on a serious situation and that the AFP is on stand-by mode. Just a hint from what I know - we are preparing. For what? For any eventuality. What eventuality? The same situation we had when the Americans came during the Spanish occupation - in short, read your history. I was stunned by that answer from my superiors. And my hunch is confirmed by the article above. I hope that as a nation, we will be united on this. May it be OFW's, expats, Filipinos abroad, and us here. This is indeed a perilous time for our country. I have fear but the patriotism in my heart will not fail me if that time comes - I am prepared. We will die fighting rather than just an on- looker of the coming onslaught. Let me take this opportunity to call on all of you namely - spearhead, avb, lord marshall, ice frog, TOPP, Mckoyzzz, saver111, to name some that we need you more than ever and whatever you can to help. Sana tularan natin ang mga Israelis - walang iwanan hanggang sa katapusan. Wala na sanang Januario Galut sa atin. Anjan lang naman si Tito Sam pero wag natin i-asa sa kanya ang lahat. Ipakita natin na kaya nating tumayo sa sarili nating mga paa tulad ng ginawa ng mga lolo natin noong WWII. I don't want WAR but it is inevitable and is already in our shores - the die is cast! I will be out for a while to prepare - this may be my last post. Hope to see you in the battlefield, my fellow patriots. God help us. :armysad:


None of you should go alone if a war broke up.

This is what we gonna do, IF a war broke up, this will be our FIRST sign, which means, we will personally prepare for war. We will all arrange our meeting place, communicate to each others, and i suggest that all volunteers from PDFF should be joining forces with Timawan volunteers (which is karamihan eh kayo kayo din pala mga inuts lol), we'll put aside our differences, and together we fight the invaders. Walang palakihan ng ulo, we will sort all things out once we organize our groups.

BUT FOR NOW, relax. I personally dont see any hard signs yet that a war is imminent, i can say it's possible though but i hardly imagine that china will actually reach the point of sending large scale invasion force to capture our territories. I personally think that before this thing happens, they will be pulvorized first by the joint allied forces of US, SK, Australia, Japan, and us the philippines.

Now IF this first line of defense collapsed, it will be our SECOND sign. Then we shall immediately all prepare ourselves to leave for the philippines, all volunteers will go fly or sail back home and meet up to form an independent guerilla group (because by then our AFP maybe already broken up to many pieces (small groups) and scattered all over the philippines).

Then once we established our armed group, we will link up with better organized guerilla groups specially those with military backgrounds. I'm open with joining up some MNLF fighters and sign an alliance with them.

Cool?
Edited by spearhead, Aug 22 2012, 08:26 PM.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
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steelDUST
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lionking66
Aug 21 2012, 08:30 PM
The Varyag has not yet been fully operational ! At best it is still on sea trial status. They are still having problems with the catapult or ski-jump.
There has been no catapults in the Varyag (Kuznetsov class) carriers, sir.

And it already attained it's initial operational capability with it's propulsion and heli docking-or so the Chicoms wanted us to believe.

With 3 more indigenous carriers in mind, the chicoms purposed the Varyag to be it's carrier research and training platform-or so the chicoms wanted us to believe.

"If weak, appear to be strong. If strong, appear to be weak." - Sun Tzu
"Thou must (in commanding and winning, or serving and losing, suffering or triumphing) be either the anvil or the hammer."
- Goethe
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steelDUST
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Sir spearhead:

MNLF will certainly team up with chicoms, sir. If independence is their objective then the chicoms will glady help them with their Mindanao claim.

"Thou must (in commanding and winning, or serving and losing, suffering or triumphing) be either the anvil or the hammer."
- Goethe
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Only in an ideal world where both parties want parity. Sadly this is not the case. We all know what China wants.


Frenzy
Aug 22 2012, 07:34 PM
"The issue of sovereignty put it on the back burner. We should try to normalize our tourism and trade relations," Chito Sta. Romana told members of the Makati Business Club.


Does this mean "screw sovereignty" you need money more?

Quote:
 
the Philippines must "exercise restraint and resort to quiet, patient diplomacy to prevent armed conflict."

Isn't this what the Philippines is doing?


Quote:
 
both sides should “find a way to have a mutually accepted contract or formula that will allow us to jointly explore” areas such as the Recto Bank

Take note on the phrase: both sides. I can only see one side who is sincere in their actions and it certainly isn't China.

Startling, but quite similar to what happened 7 decades ago when a man with a funny mustache decided to grab what he wanted and appeasement only emboldened him to go further because he knew the other side didn't show their resolve and was percieved to be weak.

The Chinese only understand strength and negotiations will prove difficult because they want it all. They want it all because they know they can take it albeit with some difficulty.

:rifle:
Edited by Hong Nam, Aug 22 2012, 10:25 PM.

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



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