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Philippines-China WPS Dispute
Topic Started: Jul 15 2012, 02:28 PM (105,156 Views)
Bastion
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Bong-bong Marcos who's family is convinced they are the real owners of the Philippines has this to say about the Chinese. "They will listen to sense if you have a sensible and reasonable proposal." obviously he hasn't been reading the Chinese official statement about the Philippines, coz if he had, he would have realized by now that there is no such thing or character in the communist Chinese dictionary that means SENSIBLE or REASONABLE, all they have in their dictionary is the 9 dash line, and everything within that line should be assumed as Sensible and Reasonable. Just like Bong-bong Marcos, the Chinese are also convinced that they own the Philippines. so bilateral talks between the two are perfectly in order, the former owner of the Philippines who needs to be paid and the present owner of the Philippines who needs legitimacy of ownership.
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China


I guess all of you now know who the Chinese government will be supporting IF he runs for president of your country.

Perhaps "a little nudge here and there," some "influence to peddle," and with a generous amount of cash to throw around?


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gammy322
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Remember Ilocos is on the WPS side...maybe he knows how to deal with the Chinese, secretly... Chinese barges keeps on staying on that side of the country anyway.
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Andres Boning
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Chaps,

Maybe what the good Senator has something up his sleaves that we don't know regarding dealing with China bilaterally, we are just ordinary Filipino People that are only basing our opinions on what others want us to see and hear, when some of these Politicians can really see the outside, inside and the "inner side" of things.

I'm pretty sure the good Senator has a catch in hand regarding if China will insist on claiming the whole of WPS as part of their territory or much worse the Philippines.

You see.. there's a big difference if we try to compare a person who talks tough without thinking of the bad outcome of what he's saying which is dumb and a person who's trying to talk and think diplomatically, trying to avoid a negative outcome, but holds a "firm" and bold response with reservations for a possible last resort.. In my opinion, this is the way I see it. :armywink:

We have to remember that during his late father's reign (Marcos years), whether we like it or not, the Philippines during (Marcos years) was very well respected as a Country and use to have a distinctive voice in the "International World Community" that even World Superpowers, Royalties around the World can't ignore, unlike their post era and that's a fact any Marcos oppositions can't deny.

Their families experiences with regards to International Relations, Foreign Policies etc. are testaments, facts.

Just my opinion, maybe what Senator Marcos wants to say is that there maybe ways of explaining to the Chinese and to remind them of the important bilateral trades that the Philippines are contributing to Chinese economy or the things they badly need, not to mention if we can identify, cut and sort out all their illegal dealings particularly in minings in the Country and make them all legal to become our bargaining chips at the same time putting and sorting territorial disputes aside and with workable, doable options for both Countries while respecting each others sovereign rights "according to UNCLOS and international norms." :dunno:

I think the big hidden problem really are maybe, some capitalists, opportunists back then, that are reigning now, enjoying their lives, getting richer by the day, while ordinary Filipinos poverty situation gets plunge into hardships deeper by the day as well.. Maybe author's of the 1987 Constitution was wrong and only made to protect the ones who really wants business something that is exclusive for their own control, personal gain, which is just to build for themselves, just for their own selfish gains and the saddest part of it all.. NOTHING for the PHILIPPINES and the FILIPINO PEOPLE, up to now, Nothing to alleviate POVERTY in the Country, but just making the real Corrupt Politikos, Oligs get richer and richer.

These are the same People, Anti-Marcos, whom Marcos sequestered shares, money from their Companies, that helped built infrastructures, sponsored, funds, development etc. things that the ordinary Filipino people are using and benefiting right now.

We have to ask ourselves, what have they done or given, built for our Country and the Filipino People? After 26 years??? Govt infrastructures, owned and provided by the Govt. and not owned, provided by a Private Individual or Oligs....??

To be honest, It's all the same around the World, it's like the "Norm" and we just have to learn, to know and to choose the lesser evil that will bring in and give more for the Country and it's People in the end.

It's the same as asking yourself and you only have 2 choices, "Ano ba ang mas ok.. yung isa lang ang corrupt? o lahat ay naging corrupt??" "Sino ba mas nahihirapan ngayon? Ordinaryong Pilipino ba o sila na mga capitalists?

Let us not quickly judge Senator Marcos's opinion.. remember this is just half baked and disclosing more on how and what, will just make other opportunist to ride and steal the outcome...

I believe this guy really just wants PH to learn to stand on it's own feet.. genuinely! Sad to say but we really can't fault them when it comes to producing something for the Country and the Filipino Citizens, (setting aside accusations on corruption) whether we like it or not.

Ask yourselves again, which one is worse??? kahit paano during his father's time may napala ang bansa at hanggang ngayon may napapala pa rin ang ordinaryong Filipino sa naipundar ng Govt. ni Marcos back then...

26 yrs after, Ngayon, may napala ba ang bansa o tayo mga Pilipino sa PABAON, Pork Barrel scam etc.??? not a Marcos loyalist, I even joined EDSA 1, ATOM, but reality now makes me think...

sorry for a bit off topic.. :btt:

again just my to cents. :ssalute:
Edited by Andres Boning, Aug 6 2014, 08:20 PM.
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Negotiations without pre-conditions. Difficult but not impossible.

Mckoyzzz
Aug 6 2014, 04:40 PM
Quote:
 
"The Philippines has exhausted almost all political and diplomatic avenues for a peaceful negotiated settlement of its maritime disputes with China," he said. He added the Philippine government hoped that its legal move (filing a case at UNCLOS) would "bring this dispute to a durable solution". - Sec. Del Rosario (January 2013)

Quote:
 
“The Chinese unequivocal message is for us to first accept that the South China Sea belongs to them before we will talk. It has, therefore, become impossible to continue bilateral discussions on disputes in the West Philippine Sea with China on the basis of this rigid position,” Hernandez said.

Hernandez noted that “no progress has been made” after more than 17 years of consultations even though the Philippines had previously stated on various occasions that Manila and Beijing have been exchanging views on these disputes to achieve negotiated solutions.

He said the consultations have been continuing since the first Philippines-China Bilateral Consultations on the South China Sea Issue in August 1995.

“Since intrusions in the Bajo de Masinloc started in April 2012 alone, we have had nearly 50 consultations with China,” he added. -- DFA Spokesperson Hernandez (July 2013)

Quote:
 
Prior to launching a case at the UN tribunal, at least 15 bilateral meetings between both countries were allegedly conducted, but Chinese demands made negotiations difficult.

"When we started bilateral negotiations, the pre-conditon was you need to accept [China's] indesputable claim of sovereignty over the South China Sea. If you do that, what else will you be negotiating?," Jose said.

He added, "They said in their statements they will compromise because this is a co-issue for them. Compromise is a key component of negotiations. (But) what will we be negotiating? They have a pre-condition, and they won't compromise." -- DFA spokesman Charles Jose (July 2014)

Edited by Hong Nam, Aug 7 2014, 01:43 AM.

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Hong Nam
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Bought by China


Countries set aside territorial disputes and share resources through joint development and management.
- Sounds great and reasonable (for reasonable governments). China has repeatedly shown it isn't.
- All this to be done by each country which believes it has sovereign legal rights over.

But China wants you to relinquish that claim before you even start to talk.
- in effect, it is compromising on your sovereignty.

Sit down and talk?
- Yes, as should be the case. But you talk; they will not listen and have never listened. You'd be better off talking to a wall. Again... because of their pre-conditions... you'd never got past stage 1.

Why can Indonesia and your country come up with an agreement at your southern maritime border?
- Not only did both parties sit down, they listened to each other with no pre-conditions. Which is why it worked, although it took a long time.

China is rich and willing to pour in billions? The Philippines taking advantage of that?
- Will the "promise of prosperity" assuage the fact that you have compromised on the very thing which you truly believe and most importantly is legally yours as defined by the 200nm EEZ? Recognize China's right and you forfeit yours. That's no way to start negotiations.

International law defines your rights and obligations.
- It is the harbinger of peace and is not an obstacle to it. Why can't China see that? It is because their case is so weak, it can't stand the scrutiny under international law.




Edited by Hong Nam, Aug 7 2014, 02:37 PM.

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Bastion
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To: Mr. Andres Boning,
When I read your defense for the Marcoses, you sounded like a nice guy, but obviously you have a short memory on what the Marcoses have done to our country. Let me give you some unsurpassable examples. When your idol first became president, our country's external dept was only $360 million, and when your idol was forcibly kicked out of his throne, our external dept was $28.3 billions, and that my Marcos loving friend is 78.6 folds of burden for us Filipinos. maybe you are just a very unique kind of person who loves to have his burden multiplied by 78.6 folds, but for the rest of us 100 million filipinos, we would would very much like to avoid it.
And like you said that YOUR good Senator Bong-bong Marcos might have a secret up his sleaves that we don't know to deal with the Chinese, your idol Ferdinand Marcos also had a secret up his sleaves to deal with the Filipinos. Your idol made an order to stop publishing our annual GDP. coz it showed how our country's economy declined every year while he was in power. or maybe he also wanted our country to be unique, just like you, my burden loving friend.
But, to be fair, your idol also found a way of lightening our burden. After he escaped to Hawaii, our Central Bank discovered that our Gold bullions was 3 tons lighter. so your idol successfully lightened the burden of our Central Banks forklift. and 3 tons is a lot, even for a forklift.
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ganymede09
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Plus we must not overlook what had and still is happening with Vietnam.....supposedly its communist govt has strong and deep ties with that "reasonable" country and they had been talking with each other since way way back...well, the whole world knows the result. we must not fall for makoy Jr.'s sound bytes in aid of election
Edited by ganymede09, Aug 7 2014, 12:02 PM.
LET'S RAISE OUR MIDDLE FINGERs TO THE MIDDLE KINGDOM.
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Mckoyzzz
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Chap, although I respect your opinion but it branched out to so many other un-related matters... Below is what Sen. Marcos said:

Hong Nam
 
"I cannot see why we don't do that (talk with China). This problem cannot be fixed unless the two parties talked. How will you come to an agreement if you're not even talking?


It's a plain and simple statement. He is urging the government to talk and discuss with China because he believed that the government were not even trying to do so.

Thus, I stick to that statement and my response was also simple, noting and quoting all the facts that indeed the PH government were conducting hundreds of bilateral talks with China since 1995 and "no progress" has been made for over 17 YEARS of TALKING because China had pre-conditions and won't compromise..
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Bastion
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It had to branch out to what you say, to many un-related matters, because like I said, Mr. Andres Boning there has a very short memory of what the Marcoses have done to our country. and the guy was encouraging the idea that the GOOD Senator Bong-bong Marcos could have have some magic spells for the Chinese up his sleaves. Here are his exact words: Maybe what the good Senator has something up his sleaves that we don't know regarding dealing with China bilaterally
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