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Philippines-China WPS Dispute
Topic Started: Jul 15 2012, 02:28 PM (105,187 Views)
Andres Boning
Member
[ *  *  * ]
To the Govt,
Just treat Ayungin Shoal as RED light as well!!!
YOU ARE JUST GIVING THEM A GREEN "GO" LIGHT if you continue this kind of attitude..
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zwahzhal
Member
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http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/05/31/948591/chinese-general-reveals-strategy-panatag-takeover
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fernandez705
Member
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zwahzhal
May 31 2013, 08:12 PM
Ang kapal nang muka nila!!! Sellfish, powerhungry b@st#!;s!!! Its funny how some words are over excagurated or even misinterpreted (seems to me they got the wrong english dictionary or they still trying to learn it) words such we pleaded the philippines and they didnt listen :lollol:
as for our government. Will this be a wake up call? How long are they going to sleep through this? Maybe once they wake up and realise whats happening, the chicom is probably taking our loved ones aswell.

WAKE UP!!!
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Real Macoy
Trainee
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What the Aquino Government needs is to grow some real balls or maybe some sort of "Viagra" to be able to secure and protect the long term interest of the Country and the Filipino People.

If we go toe to toe with China, we may suffer some backlash in our Economy, but the same thing will happen to them as well, for the whole World is watching.
At this stage, we still have a chance to prove to the World that our move on legal diplomatic protest against China comes with a genuine resolve to fight for what is ours, regardless of our inferior Military strength or with or without the help of our Allies. IT NOW BECOMES A QUESTION OF FAITH ON OUR ALLIES???

The Philippines should talk to some of our Allies like Japan, SK, Australia, Indonesia, Thailand, Spain etc., inform close allies like Japan, SK, Australia of partial brief current plans before we make the bold move and arrange some contingency plans. Lastly the US, let them think the unthinkable, the unimaginable scenario of an overlooked oppressed TRUE ally being pushed to a corner by a selfish bully, the real threat to World peace.
This should pressure them (US) to step in or the consequence of losing face to it's allies and to the World from the outcome.

"It's time NOW for the Philippines to consider, looking after it's own National INTERESTS, for their (allies) Interests ALWAYS conflict with PH's and always try to give way ever since.."


Sometimes it's better to overcome, unchained yourself from fears, restrictions, that's hindering your growth.
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Ayoshi
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Peaceful resolution

Quote:
 
Despite China’s recent actions, Valte reiterated that the Philippines is committed to a peaceful resolution of all territorial disputes.

“If you look at all our actions, we have been reasonable. We have chosen to undertake a peaceful resolution, it has been a deliberate choice that we don’t respond to any provocative actions or statements,” she said.

She refused to give a possible timeline on the resolution of the territorial dispute with China.

“We cannot speculate at this point how long this will take, but we have been abiding by international laws, abiding by our commitments, and we will leave the resolution of it to the processes that we have chosen to undertake,” Valte said.

In November 2002, a Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea was signed between the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, which counts the Philippines as a member, and China. Parties involved have yet to pen the actual code of conduct, however, as China has continuously insisted on a bilateral approach to territorial disputes.


Source: www.gmanetwork.com
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

zwahzhal
May 31 2013, 08:12 PM
"Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain... Like wind in the meadow. The days have come down in the west, behind the hills... Into shadow. How did it come to this?" —Théoden to Gamling at Helm's Deep


A question asked by a once mighty King when he re-awakened and realized he had nothing.



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boybim
Member
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the GOvt on my mind,is now playing the Chinese way of playing with words,to most of us we may see govt's response to the ayungin intrusion as another typical lame approach,but is ee that there IS plans to reinforce ayungin with better facilities and men,of which the govt declared as "provisions" and "maintenance"on a few brave marines inside the sierra madre

The Gov't,may draw flak from ost of our countrymen,but has gone wide praise to the outside diplomatic world. For one, Pnoy was credited as one that wields power among leaders in asia by standing up to the big bully,..some experts revealing the "audacity" by which the philippines hauled the case to UNCLOS,and got ASEAN in engagement.

we may not have the big guns,but we have done the more destructive job of "highlighting"chinese aggression amidst the WPS.IMHO the gov't is doing what it can,far short from the previous administrations style of "joint exploration"on areas well within our EZZ

The 2 pronged approach of diplomacy and military modernization must ontinue head on,diplomats and lawyers do the talking,and shake hands with our allies more ofetn.Japn, US,Sokor and majority of asean,as well as the EU has supported our stance. The PN modernization,albeit not so fast coming as we wouldve liked,is well coming iwth the spearheading efforts by Pinoy nd the DND.

To those of our countrymen who still feels,that we train our guns more and speak less,might as well do what a coup plotter did,hire a banca and swim head on to the WPS. you will realize that the sea is all that quite there amidst the tension,but the scene behind is like a busy kitchen,where people who have a say about it engage in chess like manner,anticipating,moving and making friends.in conclusion, SOBRIETY may be key,and the absence of news may not mean the absence of action.Ayungin is still in our hands as has been,let us watch the developement unfold as we have always ownedour shores by being the obvious winner in proximity
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Quote:
 
News / Asia
Philippines, Vietnam Cry Foul Over Chinese Vessels in Disputed Waters
Simone Orendain
May 31, 2013


It is fishing season once again in the South China Sea and, as in past years, clashes between Chinese fishermen and those of their maritime neighbors are on the rise.

This is the second year in a row that military vessels have escorted a Chinese fishing fleet so far south at this time of year. China bans fishing near its own shores from mid-May until August to permit the rehabilitation of fish stocks. That's when the fleets head out into waters claimed by China's neighbors: the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

The fishing ban causes special problems for Vietnam, which refuses to recognize the prohibition in waters it claims as its own.

That has led to regular clashes, some of them violent. This week, Hanoi filed a diplomatic protest saying one of its ships was rammed by a Chinese vessel on May 20.

While it wages a diplomatic fight, the Philippines is also talking tough. Last week, President Benigno Aquino announced $1.8 billion in new funding for the country's notoriously weak military and said the Philippines will always stand up to anybody who threatens it.

But Carl Thayer, a security analyst with the Australian Defense Force Academy, said Aquino will have a hard time backing up his rhetoric.

"Until their force modernization takes hold, which is years away, there's nothing much they can do except make public protests," Thayer remarked.

"Now there is a systematic attempt to really use all possible diplomatic channels, all possible diplomatic means, to protect the Philippines' interest in the South China Sea," he said.

Foreign Affairs spokesman Raul Hernandez said the Philippines is ready to file more protests for as long as the perceived intrusions take place.

http://www.voanews.com/content/philippines-vietnam-cry-foul-over-chinese-vessels-in-disputed-waters/1672069.html



Quote:
 
ASIA PACIFIC
Filipino marines use grounded ship as last Spratlys outpost
AFP-JIJI


MANILA - A handful of marines living on a World War II-era ship grounded on a remote, tiny reef is the Philippines' last line of defense against China's efforts to control most of the South China Sea.

The soldiers are stationed on Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands aboard a former U.S. tank-landing vessel that was deliberately abandoned there to serve as a base, said their former commander, Juancho Sabban.

"Their lives are very hard . . . but they are marines. They are used to that kind of thing," said the retired general. "There is no ground. They live on a grounded ship. They depend only on supplies that are delivered to them on logistics runs."

The shoal and the lives of the troops guarding it were thrust into the global spotlight this week after the Philippines said a Chinese warship was "illegally and provocatively" circling the area.

Dozens of Vietnamese soldiers died in losing battles in 1974 and 1988 with Chinese forces for control of South China Sea islands, which are believed to sit atop reserves of oil and gas worth billions of dollars.

The BRP Sierra Madre, a 100-meter amphibious vessel built for the United States in 1944 and acquired by the Filipino Navy in 1976, was deliberately grounded in the late 1990s to shelter the garrison, according to Bito-onon. He said each of the Philippine-held islands were manned by "at most" a dozen marines or navy personnel.

Galvez said the grounded vessel produced its own electricity via an engine, giving the shoal garrison access to indoor entertainment including movies and video games. Satellite phones also keep them in contact during tours of duty that last between three and six months.

"It's still a functioning ship. It's just considered a ship in distress," Galvez said.



A 2 pronged approach. Like it or not, it is what is needed. Bravery should be complemented by diplomacy as a "moral high-ground" is necessary in any engagement.

I may get some flak (maybe even more) for saying this, but it would take "heaven and earth" to bring your country at par with China. Hence, a minimum credible defense is a smart and logical concept. I believe the concept is not to defeat China but to be capable of hitting them where it hurts.

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Some of you are taking a tougher stance than some. It's admirable. But bear in mind what is in the Philippine armed forces inventory. Vietnam lost the Paracel Islands at a cost of many lives. Was it worth it? Maybe.... maybe not. However, we will never know what could have happened had the Vietnamese enlisted or tried harder on the diplomatic offensive. Your administration knows this. No amount of bravado and gallantry will prevent the Chinese from taking those disputed islands. The Chinese are goading you to make a mistake. Which is why they are making such "inflammatory" statements in order to provoke you. You fall into this trap and you can say goodbye to the Kalayaan Islands.

"One cannot wage war under present conditions without the support of public opinion, which is tremendously molded by the press and other forms of propaganda."
- Douglas MacArthur

Diplomacy should be used to serve as a reprieve between engagements and should be used as often as possible.

You probably think your current administration lacks the "cojones" to face up to the Chinese. You probably think it's a soldiers duty to die for ones' country because it's what is expected of them. But don't you think it be better to just lie and wait, bide your time and strike when you are able?

Good generalship is a realization that... you've got to try and figure out how to accomplish your mission with a minimum loss of human life.
- Norman Schwarzkopf

Heroes are often the product of conflict, a sadly more often than not, most of them are dead. It will definitely be better to have live heroes who can go on a keep on fighting.

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- George S. Patton

Remember, sometimes a pin-prick to the heart is more effective than a blunt blow to the body. Besides you never really know what you military is doing. Don't make the mistake of assuming the absence of "news" about the military response is the absence of action at all. Have some faith that someone out there knows what they are doing.







Edited by Hong Nam, Jun 1 2013, 10:56 PM.

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pachador


tactically speaking, the outlying philippine-occupied islands such as Pag-asa island are harder to defend. for example, the PAF's big inventory of helicopter gunships will not be able to provide air support or loiter/patrol longer in the area, and re-supply by ship will take longer.
I suggest that if the final UNCLOS ruling will exclude the outlying islands(e.g. pagasa island)..... but let us keep ayungin, panatag, reed bank, etc, then the govt can make a decision if its worth it keeping pagasa and instead concentrate patrol and defense within the 200 mile EEZ(which includes ayungin, mischief,panatag and reed bank). the govt can ask the US bluntly, that we might abandon Pagasa island, and if you really want us to keep it you better help us fortify it . Again, it would really be interesting what would be the UNCLOS ruling as far as how far our EEZ will extend, and which areas fall under our jurisdiction.... this is just something to think about.
I'll give you one scenario, if the bully provokes us in ayungin which is only 100 miles from palawan, our armed forces have a better fighting chance and the bully knows that so instead of bringing the battle close to us , they might just in the meantime retaliate by seizing pagasa island which is about 300 miles(??) away...

Edited by pachador, Jun 2 2013, 01:21 AM.
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

Quote:
 
U.S. won't tolerate changed status quo in Senkakus, South China Sea
June 1, 2013


The United States warned Saturday it will not tolerate attempts by any country to change the status quo in the Japanese-administered Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea and islands claimed by some Southeast Asian countries and Taiwan in the South China Sea.

“The United States stands firmly against any coercive attempts to alter the status quo,” Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said in a speech at the Asia Security Summit in Singapore, an apparent reference to China’s recent assertiveness over the Senkakus and disputed islands in the South China Sea such as the Spratlys.

http://globalbalita.com/2013/06/01/u-s-wont-tolerate-changed-status-quo-in-senkakus-s-china-sea/

Now that pretty much covers it. Strongest statement from the "yanquis" that I've heard so far and it's good news. I think they just bought you some more time. :thumbsup:




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