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PH Files Case vs China Before UNCLOS Tribunal; Ph challenges China's 9-dash claims in WPS at UN Tribunal
Topic Started: Jan 22 2013, 05:03 PM (50,540 Views)
icefrog
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Let me correct myself. Thitu island is just outside the Philippines 200nm EEZ.
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r3mu511
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some key take-away points I got from the PCA doc link posted by @ayoshi:

- ruling does not address any sovereignty issues

- all spratly features w/c are high-tide elevations (ie. above water at high-tide) are classified as rocks and not as fully entitled islands, hence only generate 12 nm territorial zone and do not generate 200 nm eez's (this includes Pag-Asa)

- scarborough shoal, as a high-tide feature, generates a 12 nm territorial zone w/c is not part of the phil eez, ie. phil eez surrounds the territorial waters of scarborough; traditional fishing rights of countries are to be respected w/in these territorial waters (so in the context of just the PCA's ruling, yasay was "right" about sharing scarborough w/ china since even if phils had sovereignty over scarborough the traditional fishing rights of the chinese have to be respected w/in the territorial waters of scarborough)

- mischief reef, second thomas shoal, and reed bank are not considered rocks (previous two are low-tide elevations, ie. submerged at high-tide; while reed bank is fully submerged) and hence do not generate any maritime zones and are thus fully w/in the phil eez

so based on the PCA ruling, phil fishermen have the right to fish at scarborough (side by side w/ the chinese), and phil govt should kick china off of mischief reef...
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icefrog
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As far as I know Scarborough is well within the Philippines 200nm EEZ.
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r3mu511
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yup it is, but per the PCA ruling the territorial waters of scarborough are not part of the eez... since the PCA is not saying anything about who has ownership of scarborough then it's territorial waters do not necessarily belong to the phils... but regardless who owns scarborough, according to the PCA the traditional fishing rights require the owner to allow the other countries to fish w/in scarborough's territorial waters...
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pachador


although all those rocks or high tide elevations can generate a 12 mile territorial sea, for as long as scarborough shoal has not yet been piled on with sand and been physically occupied then we are still ok. As mentioned , ownership of rocks such as scarborough shoal remains disputed, and the tribunal has not ruled on who owns it as it is outside their jurisdiction(I believe the next court for this is the international court of justice to determine ownership) and that is why the US has sent strong warnings to the bully to back off. reports indicated that bully barges were on their way already to scarborough shoal to pile on sand but they turned away after the US sent A-10s and F-18s.

Unfortunately the award which has long been predicted to be in the Philippines favor was not factored into the modernization or defense horizon planning of the AFP and decision-making of the executive and legislative branches of the Philippines. resulting in a wide disconnect between the AFP modernization program and defending areas awarded to us by ITLOS at least in the near term. as you can see we are still toothless for the most part in implementing or enforcing any physical actions in areas awarded to us. The modernization program was too fixated on the 2020 or 202+ goal that it neglected the hard realities on the ground or rather the sea, specifically, the reality of both the incursions in the west philippine sea and the reality of the ITLOS award to the Philippines in 2016. The 2 FA-50s have no ammo or missiles, the del pilar frigates have no missiles, the shore-based missile system was shelved, etc etc This neglect or oversight can only be described as... never mind...


Edited by pachador, Jul 13 2016, 01:34 AM.
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israeli
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will the Philippines rely solely on diplomacy as a means of asserting its sovereignty over territories occupied by China and implementing the ruling by the PCA in the case of Philippines v. China? honestly, this ruling should also be used as a basis by the Duterte government to increase defense spending and beef up the country's external defense capabilities. the ruling will be useless if everything will be done solely through diplomacy without the Philippines asserting and maintaining physical presence on its territories.
"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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Hong Nam
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Bought by China


After South China Sea Ruling, China Censors Online Calls for War

Beijing has fanned the flames of nationalism. Now it's struggling to contain it


BY BETHANY ALLEN-EBRAHIMIAN
JULY 12, 2016


Posted Image



July 12 was a dark day for fervent Chinese nationalists. After the tribunal announced its judgment at 5 pm Beijing time, declaring that China's historical claims in the region have no legal basis, massive wave of anger erupted across Chinese social media, where grassroots nationalism flourishes. But to the ruling Communist Party, such sentiment is a double-edged sword: official censors moved quickly to curtail online discussion that seemed to overstep the bounds of acceptable nationalist discourse.

Beijing has made its position uncompromisingly clear to both domestic and international audiences that land features within the Nine Dash Line are its sovereign territory.

While likely intended to strengthen national resolve and put forward a strong face to the outside world, this strategy is risky. If the party is unable to maintain China's territorial integrity, or if it is unwilling to heed popular calls for tougher measures, it runs the risk of being viewed as too weak to defend China's national interests. Grassroots nationalists may unleash their anger against the party itself. Beijing has often emphasized that peace in the region is vital for prosperity, indicating that while maritime claims are important, it is unlikely to start a war with the Philippines or the United States. But an ultra-nationalist populace may pressure the government to take reckless measures.


Foreign Policy





Edited by Hong Nam, Jul 13 2016, 12:02 PM.

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



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icefrog
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Good to read something from the POV of someone who is unbias and sees the 'other side' for the lack of a better term. It seems this ruling cuts much deeper that it truly does. The pen is mightier than the sword indeed. Well, at least sometimes.
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icefrog
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Besides from the possible local disappoints from nationalists discussed by the article above w/c would be another 'strike' to possible implosion tendencies to the the ruling party. This would embolden other countries like Vietnam and Japan to follow the same route and further contribute to what the article was discussing.

----

Who will enforce? No Int'l police? The US is playing Int'l police for a very long time now wether solicited or not. The US were already patrols and. Freedom of navigation even before this ruling came out. This ruling will on give them an excuse to double down. Other countries who have done freedom of navigation at a less known basis and less often was Australia. This ruling could also give them more reason to increase more freedom of navigations. Australia has an interest too you know. Australian companies were previously involved in partnership with local companies for surveying gas and oil resources.
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Ayoshi
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China vows to protect South China Sea sovereignty after ruling | reuters - Jul 13, 2016
Quote:
 
State media called the Permanent Court of Arbitration in the Hague a "puppet" of external forces, after it ruled that China had breached the Philippines' sovereign rights by endangering its ships and fishing and oil projects.

China has repeatedly blamed the United States for stirring up trouble in the South China Sea, where its territorial claims overlap in parts with Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei and Taiwan.

"China will take all necessary measures to protect its territorial sovereignty and maritime rights and interests," the ruling Communist Party's official People's Daily said in a front page commentary on Wednesday.

The case, overseeing an energy-rich region that is home to also one of the world's busiest trade routes, has been seen as a test of China's rising power and its economic and strategic rivalry with the United States.

Beijing called the Philippines claims of sovereignty in the South China Sea "baseless" and an "act of bad faith". In a government white paper published on Wednesday China also said its fishing boats had been harassed and attacked by the Philippines around the Spratly Islands.
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