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PH Files Case vs China Before UNCLOS Tribunal; Ph challenges China's 9-dash claims in WPS at UN Tribunal
Topic Started: Jan 22 2013, 05:03 PM (50,593 Views)
Santi Kampilan
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If China chooses to ignore us, they might as well drop the Senkaku case likewise. You cannot go to UNCLOS and abide by their rules because you just filed something against Japan and then Philippines comes along and files something against you and chooses to ignore and does not abide by the rules. Hello!!! Smart move Pnoy!

I believe they will eventually back out on both and let the chips fall. Japan has been in control of the Senkaku's for awhile and the 9-line is a concocted scam that they can't uphold so both ways they will loose. So, they might as well withdraw.

How they will behave thereafter we don't know. That will be dependent on the new administration. We just have to be vigilant and don't let our guard down. They are a dragon in a sheep's clothing.
Edited by Santi Kampilan, Jan 24 2013, 07:29 AM.
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Uruzu
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As I said before. Send in PCG ships with a strict no fire policy. They tried to use this trick against Japan. The Philippines can surely return the favour.

Hell , if I were the Commander in Chief , I would even consider sending in a volunteer coast guard landing team to ''perform routine checks and repairs on the lighthouse''. Should the Chinese decide to fire on the team. Well ..international condemnation . Go ahead.

Resources,ships should be diverted from other areas of the country to maintain a continuous presence around the shoal. 24 hours a day , 7 days a week.

That said , all these should be done months ago. Look at the Vietnamese. They act fast , tough and don't give a ewwww . Look how China avoided confrontations with Vietnam (relatively speaking) and pick on the Philippines instead.
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Samir_Duran
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Buti pa si kuya Santi may punto. China cannot just simply IGNORE it because of the same simple reason that they also used the same agency to ask arbitration on the Senkaku claim by Japan. Kung baga, pinakita lang nila na doble kara ang mga Instik. Sa Japan nag file ng case, pwede! Sa Pilipinas just ignore the case filed against them(China)? Kayo nga magisip nahaihirapan na kaming abutin ang kaibuturan ng mga kokote nyo.

Sir Uruzu, wala na po ang "light station" doon. Nawala at nasira na sa ilang bagyong dumaan doon. Ano pa ba ang aayusin kung wala na ito at hindi na nakatayo. The only thing left was the steel iron that the light pole used to stand. To get a better idea what a light station looks like, please check the one in Mactan island near the navy station. Ito ang itsura nya:Posted ImageYang puting poste na yan, yan lang ang nakatayo doon sa Scarborough. Wala na ito ngayon.

If we do not stand a chance against the Dragon militarily, so what? Are we just going to stand and look on or do something like what our forefathers did during the revolution and Philippine-American War - that is to fight despite the lack of arms and discipline? Alisin na natin ang pagiging utak kolonyal dahil wala na tayo sa panahong yaon. This is our time, our own history. We make it. Remember the words of one Marine soldier stationed at Parola island interviewed by Kara David of GMA News - "kahit APAT LANG KAMI pag may dumaong at subukang kunin ang isla na ito LALABAN KAMI HANGGGANG SA KAMATAYAN dahil ang isla na ito ay pagmamayari ng Pilipinas at ng Pilipinas lang". Ganyan tayo dapat magisip. Huwag na tayong magbangayan dahil sa kulang tayo sa armas. Dapat na tayong magkaisa at suportahan ang ating mahal na Pangulo sa laban na ito. Laban natin itong lahat. Manalo matalo tayo pa rin ay Pilipino sa mata ng mundo. Nasa sa atin kung ano ba talaga ang GUSTO nating iparating sa mga ibang lahi sa mundo tungkol sa usaping ito. Para sa amin dito sa AFP, handa kami sa anu mang mangyari. Batid namin na hindi namin kaya ito pero kakayanin namin sa abot ng lakas namin. At ang lakas namin ay kayo - mga mamamayan ng Pilipinas. Kailangan namin ang nagkakaisang tulong ninyo pagdating ng panahon. Maaasahan ba namin kayo? :patrioticpinoy:

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Marschall
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Quote:
 
Buti pa si kuya Santi may punto. China cannot just simply IGNORE it because of the same simple reason that they also used the same agency to ask arbitration on the Senkaku claim by Japan. Kung baga, pinakita lang nila na doble kara ang mga Instik. Sa Japan nag file ng case, pwede! Sa Pilipinas just ignore the case filed against them(China)? Kayo nga magisip nahaihirapan na kaming abutin ang kaibuturan ng mga kokote nyo.


This is assuming that the ChiComs are relying on only this card regarding the Senkakus: if they are not, then they might decide to actually ignore the case and pursue their interests by other means.

It is doubtful they would left both claims fall. They might, however, simply prioritize. Now, what is more likely? Pushing for the Senkakus over which they do not have effective control yet and over whose fighting would surely drag the US military into the game - or simply keeping and consolidating their control over occupied Philippine territory - and of which they think there are oil and gas reserves?



As for the bravery of members of the AFP: I do not think anyone puts that into question. However, one has to caution against senseless sacrifices. It'd prove nothing but stupidity.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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Santi Kampilan
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Marschall
Jan 24 2013, 09:31 AM
Quote:
 
Buti pa si kuya Santi may punto. China cannot just simply IGNORE it because of the same simple reason that they also used the same agency to ask arbitration on the Senkaku claim by Japan. Kung baga, pinakita lang nila na doble kara ang mga Instik. Sa Japan nag file ng case, pwede! Sa Pilipinas just ignore the case filed against them(China)? Kayo nga magisip nahaihirapan na kaming abutin ang kaibuturan ng mga kokote nyo.


This is assuming that the ChiComs are relying on only this card regarding the Senkakus: if they are not, then they might decide to actually ignore the case and pursue their interests by other means.

It is doubtful they would left both claims fall. They might, however, simply prioritize. Now, what is more likely? Pushing for the Senkakus over which they do not have effective control yet and over whose fighting would surely drag the US military into the game - or simply keeping and consolidating their control over occupied Philippine territory - and of which they think there are oil and gas reserves?



As for the bravery of members of the AFP: I do not think anyone puts that into question. However, one has to caution against senseless sacrifices. It'd prove nothing but stupidity.
Now the Senkaku claim is also a concocted scam. See this article Chinese Document contradict Beijing's Claim. Good thing Japan is strong enough to withstand China's bullying tactics. All their lies are coming around to haunt them. You're right Samir, doble kara nga, BIG TIME! It is timely we filed ours. This will expose them for what they truly are. As Lacierda said, see you in UNCLOS!
Edited by Santi Kampilan, Jan 24 2013, 10:15 AM.
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redcomet_m
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Nevertheless, whatever the result of that arbitration, we must be ready to assert our control and claim because looking at the bigger picture they, China, will never back down. Actually im more concerned of a scenario where when a decision is near, some accident will happen in mischief or scarborough.
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raider1011


gammy322
Jan 22 2013, 06:45 PM
4. The Philippines is conscious of China’s Declaration of August 25, 2008 under Article 298 of UNCLOS (regarding optional exceptions to the compulsory proceedings), and has avoided raising subjects or making claims that China has, by virtue of that Declaration, excluded from arbitral jurisdiction.

May typo. Correct date's August 25, 2006:

Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)

Declaration under article 298:

The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.


--->Article 298

Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2

1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:


This includes arbitration. Apparently the prevailing belief is China itself took Japan to the arbitral tribunal over the Senkakus. That belief is false.

Quote:
 
At the same time, the Chinese government has taken a series of measures to state and strengthen the position of China on its sovereignty over Diaoyu Dao. We have established and announced base points and baselines of the territorial sea of Diaoyu Dao and its affiliated islands in line with the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone. This is consistent with relevant provisions of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Early this morning, Ambassador Li Baodong, China's Permanent Representative to the United Nations, deposited the coordinates table and chart of the base points and baselines of the territorial sea of China's Diaoyu Dao and its affiliated islands with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Announcing base points and baselines of the territorial sea is the basis of establishing waters under national jurisdiction, on the basis of which the territorial sea, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf can be established according to the provisions of UNCLOS. This has given us a clearer legal basis to safeguard China's sovereignty over Diaoyu Dao and China's sovereign rights and jurisdiction in the waters around the islands.

14 September 2012

China's action was a unilateral one. Yes they invoked UNCLOS but did not invoke its provisions on arbitration to uphold their claim. They made a statement, "This is ours and here's why". Take it or leave it.

Hindi po ganon katanga ang kalaban natin. Hindi natin sila madadaan sa hiya, as if may pakialam ang mga iyan.
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.

|| Chester W. Nimitz

Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

|| Mark Twain
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Samir_Duran
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We did the same thing - declaring that the WPS including Scarborough shoal is Philippine territory by virtue of discovery and history. But the Chinese did not recognize it and instead insisted on their own bogus claim. So the Philippine side exhausted all diplomatic and political maneuvers. Now the "legal" maneuver steps in and that is ARBITRATION. We still have the last card which is the "military" option. Right now we are just putting that card face down as if waiting for the right time to throw it in and win the poker game - ROYAL FLUSH.
Edited by Samir_Duran, Jan 24 2013, 11:48 AM.
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Marschall
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We still have the last card which is the "military" option. Right now we are just putting that card face down as if waiting for the right time to throw it in and win the poker game


The military card???

You think China would just sit idly by. If we had the power to use that card, we would have not allowed this to happen in the first place: we would have stopped them from entering our territory.
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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Santi Kampilan
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raider1011
Jan 24 2013, 11:23 AM
gammy322
Jan 22 2013, 06:45 PM
4. The Philippines is conscious of China’s Declaration of August 25, 2008 under Article 298 of UNCLOS (regarding optional exceptions to the compulsory proceedings), and has avoided raising subjects or making claims that China has, by virtue of that Declaration, excluded from arbitral jurisdiction.

May typo. Correct date's August 25, 2006:

Declaration made after ratification (25 August 2006)

Declaration under article 298:

The Government of the People's Republic of China does not accept any of the procedures provided for in Section 2 of Part XV of the Convention with respect to all the categories of disputes referred to in paragraph 1 (a) (b) and (c) of Article 298 of the Convention.


--->Article 298

Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2

1. When signing, ratifying or acceding to this Convention or at any time thereafter, a State may, without prejudice to the obligations arising under section 1, declare in writing that it does not accept any one or more of the procedures provided for in section 2 with respect to one or more of the following categories of disputes:


This includes arbitration. Apparently the prevailing belief is China itself took Japan to the arbitral tribunal over the Senkakus. That belief is false.

Quote:
 
At the same time, the Chinese government has taken a series of measures to state and strengthen the position of China on its sovereignty over Diaoyu Dao. We have established and announced base points and baselines of the territorial sea of Diaoyu Dao and its affiliated islands in line with the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Territorial Sea and the Contiguous Zone. This is consistent with relevant provisions of the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Early this morning, Ambassador Li Baodong, China's Permanent Representative to the United Nations, deposited the coordinates table and chart of the base points and baselines of the territorial sea of China's Diaoyu Dao and its affiliated islands with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon. Announcing base points and baselines of the territorial sea is the basis of establishing waters under national jurisdiction, on the basis of which the territorial sea, exclusive economic zone and continental shelf can be established according to the provisions of UNCLOS. This has given us a clearer legal basis to safeguard China's sovereignty over Diaoyu Dao and China's sovereign rights and jurisdiction in the waters around the islands.

14 September 2012

China's action was a unilateral one. Yes they invoked UNCLOS but did not invoke its provisions on arbitration to uphold their claim. They made a statement, "This is ours and here's why". Take it or leave it.

Hindi po ganon katanga ang kalaban natin. Hindi natin sila madadaan sa hiya, as if may pakialam ang mga iyan.
They couldn't take Japan through the arbitration process for they knew too well that it would be futile. If you look closely at the evidence simply says that the Ming Dynasty never controlled islands past the 40 km line. Therefore , when Japan took over and controlled it in 1895 nobody complained about it until 70 years later. Well, it mute point now cuz US just declared that Senkaku is covered under the US-Japan Defense Treaty because it was the US who gave it to Japan and had absolute control over the islands.

For us, it is not a matter of an island or two but the whole Nine dash line. China knows too well also that they will be hard-pressed to justify this claim. They have no history to validate its claim.

My point is at least the Chinese recognizes the authority of UNCLOS over this matter. And now that very same argument (UNCLOS Article 76:7-9) is not only being thrown at them but including the whole greediness of the Nine Dash Line. We are elevating it further by asking the arbitration tribunal an award (like a default judgment whether they show up or not). Win or loose, it is a moral victory already to expose this scam to the whole world.
My prayer is that we win and that there will be a peaceful resolution to this matter.

Edited by Santi Kampilan, Jan 24 2013, 04:40 PM.
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