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PH Files Case vs China Before UNCLOS Tribunal; Ph challenges China's 9-dash claims in WPS at UN Tribunal
Topic Started: Jan 22 2013, 05:03 PM (50,581 Views)
raider1011


But it was not clear how the tribunal can help. While all its decisions are binding on countries concerned, it has no power to enforce them.

Reuters

But Thayer says the court's decision, though technically "binding," could easily be ignored by China, since there is no mechanism included to enforce any possible ruling.

Voice of America


1. The whole point of seeking a legally-binding decision is to avoid-you-know-what (war). But without a mechanism to enforce it . . .

2. Drugs destroy minds. Stop that.
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.

|| Chester W. Nimitz

Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

|| Mark Twain
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pachador


once UN has rendered a judgement as to who owns who, then whatever actions the philippines make in areas declared by UN as legally owned by the philippines will also consequently be legal. right now when the bully tries to "bait" or intimidate, its hard to hit back since the bully can always retaliate and claim punitive actions to protect her citizens, but now if philippines hits back under the cover of UN judicial decision, then allied countries will also be more emboldened or willing to help since there are no more gray areas. its clear-cut ika nga... this is kinda similar to the situation when euro countries intervened in libya since it had a UN mandate. it would be harder for allied countries to help the philippines in disputed areas not yet "cleared" by UN as to who owns who.... hence, once the UN renders its judicial ruling, the areas we are legally entitled to under international law will be crystal clear.....as to the bully not joining the UN case, its essentially an admission they have a weak case, and as far as UN is concerned that will not stop UN from rendering a decision on this case anyway.





Edited by pachador, Feb 20 2013, 08:07 AM.
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raider1011


Following is the official transcript of Hong’s briefing which was conducted in Chinese:

Quote:
 
Q: It is said that China has returned the Philippines’ Notification on the submission of South China Sea issue to international Arbitration, please confirm.

A: China’s position on the South China Sea issue is consistent and clear. China’s sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters is supported by abundant historical and legal evidence. Meanwhile, bearing in mind the larger interest of China-Philippines relations and regional peace and stability, China has remained committed to resolving the disputes through bilateral negotiations, and has made every effort to maintain stability and to promote regional cooperation in the South China Sea. To resolve the disputes through negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned is also the consensus between China and ASEAN countries as stipulated in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC). The Philippines’ Note Verbale and the attached Notification not only runs counter to the consensus, but also contains many grave errors both in fact and in law, and includes many false accusations against China. China firmly opposes to this.

On Feb. 19, Ambassador of China to the Philippines Ma Keqing met with officials of Department of Foreign Affairs of the Philippines, and stated that the Chinese side rejected and returned the Philippines’ Note Verbale and the attached Notification.

The Chinese side hopes that the Philippine side keeps its word, not to take any action that magnifies and complicates the issue, responds positively to China’s proposals on establishing a bilateral regular consultation mechanism on maritime issues, resumes the operation of the Confidence Building Measures Mechanism(CBMs) as established between the two countries, and reverts to the right track of settling the disputes through bilateral negotiations.

VERA Files

On China’s response to the Philippines’ Arbitration case before UNCLOS

Quote:
 
The Department received this afternoon from Chinese Ambassador to the Philippines Ma Keqing a Note Verbale stating that China rejects and returns the Philippines’ Notification and Statement of Claim.

The Department stresses that China’s action will not interfere with the process of Arbitration initiated by the Philippines on January 22, 2013. The Arbitration will proceed under Annex VII of UNCLOS and the 5-member arbitration panel will be formed with or without China.

In its Note Verbale, China reiterated its often stated position that it has indisputable sovereignty over the entire South China Sea encompassed by its 9-dash line claim. This excessive claim is the core issue of the Philippines’ arbitration case against China.

The Philippines remains committed to Arbitration which is a friendly, peaceful and durable form of dispute settlement that should be welcomed by all.

Department of Foreign Affairs
God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.

|| Chester W. Nimitz

Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it.

|| Mark Twain
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arvcab
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http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/02/19/13/china-twits-philippines-historical-legal-errors

China twits Philippines' 'historical, legal errors'


BEIJING, China (UPDATED) - The Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday that China had rejected the Philippines' request to submit the two countries' territorial disputes in the South China Sea to international arbitration.

The ministry's spokesman Hong Lei said China's ambassador to the Philippines, Ma Keqing, met on Tuesday with officials from the Philippines' Foreign Ministry to reject the request.

Hong stressed that China has consistently advocated resolving territorial disputes bilaterally, a stance he said was supported by the ASEAN countries.

"The Philippines' actions not only violated this consensus, they also make numerous historical and legal errors, including false criticism of China. China absolutely cannot accept it," Hong told a regular news conference in Beijing.

"We hope the Philippine side can scrupulously abide by its promises, not take actions to expand and complicate the situation, and positively respond to proposals made by China on setting up a negotiation system to discuss maritime disputes, and restarting work of building a mutual-trust mechanism," he added.

China, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan all claim territory in the South China Sea.

China's claim is the largest, forming a vast U-shape over most of the sea's 1.7 million square km (648,000 square miles), including the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.

China has insisted on handling the disputes on a one-on-one basis rather than multilaterally, a strategy some critics have described as "divide and conquer."


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pachador


you will see here by the bully's statements, that they are just taking everybody including the philippines for a ride(pinapasakay lang tayo). if the bully really believes in the righteousness of their claim then why are they afraid of the UN tribunal. binabaliktad pa nila that we are complicating the issue when it is really the bully who is complicating the issue. the issue is very simple, let a neutral 3rd party, the UN tribunal, decide which side is correct in a peaceful manner.

arvcab
Feb 20 2013, 11:32 AM
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/02/19/13/china-twits-philippines-historical-legal-errors

China twits Philippines' 'historical, legal errors'


BEIJING, China (UPDATED) - The Chinese Foreign Ministry said on Tuesday that China had rejected the Philippines' request to submit the two countries' territorial disputes in the South China Sea to international arbitration.

The ministry's spokesman Hong Lei said China's ambassador to the Philippines, Ma Keqing, met on Tuesday with officials from the Philippines' Foreign Ministry to reject the request.

Hong stressed that China has consistently advocated resolving territorial disputes bilaterally, a stance he said was supported by the ASEAN countries.

"The Philippines' actions not only violated this consensus, they also make numerous historical and legal errors, including false criticism of China. China absolutely cannot accept it," Hong told a regular news conference in Beijing.

"We hope the Philippine side can scrupulously abide by its promises, not take actions to expand and complicate the situation, and positively respond to proposals made by China on setting up a negotiation system to discuss maritime disputes, and restarting work of building a mutual-trust mechanism," he added.

China, the Philippines, Malaysia, Brunei, Vietnam and Taiwan all claim territory in the South China Sea.

China's claim is the largest, forming a vast U-shape over most of the sea's 1.7 million square km (648,000 square miles), including the Spratly and Paracel archipelagos.

China has insisted on handling the disputes on a one-on-one basis rather than multilaterally, a strategy some critics have described as "divide and conquer."


Edited by pachador, Feb 20 2013, 11:58 AM.
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Santi Kampilan
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Philippines Foreign Secretary, Albert del Rosario, says China's rejection of arbitration will not hinder the process.

Mr del Rosario says a five-member panel will be formed to settle the dispute, with or without China.

He says Manila is committed to the friendly and peaceful settlement of the rift under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea.
Australia News Network.



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Mckoyzzz
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Quote:
 
A: China’s position on the South China Sea issue is consistent and clear. China’s sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and their adjacent waters is supported by abundant historical and legal evidence.

Then prove it to the world through UN Arbitration. If there's a great way and means to do so, this is the time China...

Quote:
 
To resolve the disputes through negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned is also the consensus between China and ASEAN countries as stipulated in the Declaration on the Conduct of Parties in the South China Sea (DOC).

They kept on insisting that the Philippines to "abide" by the rules set on the Declaration of Conduct, but according to the declaration #4. 4. The Parties concerned undertake to resolve their territorial and jurisdictional disputes by peaceful means, without resorting to the threat or use of force, through friendly consultations and negotiations by sovereign states directly concerned, in accordance with universally recognized principles of international law, including the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea; it is clear that the negotiation should it still be based on UNCLOS and international laws... which the PH did not violate at all but adhered to it when it filed its case on UNCLOS...

Quote:
 
The Philippines’ Note Verbale and the attached Notification not only runs counter to the consensus, but also contains many grave errors both in fact and in law, and includes many false accusations against China. China firmly opposes to this.

Then again prove it to the UNCLOS tribunal...

Quote:
 
The Chinese side hopes that the Philippine side keeps its word, not to take any action that magnifies and complicates the issue,

Does seeking the UN Tribunal's authority to once and for all clear this issue, complicates it even more? I don't get it...
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Hong Nam
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Mckoyzzz
Feb 20 2013, 03:12 PM

Quote:
 
The Chinese side hopes that the Philippine side keeps its word, not to take any action that magnifies and complicates the issue,

Does seeking the UN Tribunal's authority to once and for all clear this issue, complicates it even more? I don't get it...

I don't get it either. But then again, we aren't supposed to since it in itself (Chinese line of argument) does not make sense. They know it and know fully well their claim will not stand in the eyes of the world. So, they twist the words, turn the truth around and label the victim as the bully.

Then they resort to name calling, followed by claims that no one get's the point, and that everyone else is wrong but them. Sounds familiar? Well, it should.







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Mckoyzzz
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They kept on saying that they have indisputable sovereignty over blah, blah... and they have strong evidence based on facts and laws, blah blah... anyone can say such things, heck, even me (it's easy to say I own the whole South East Asia)... but proving it is a totally different matter...

Pach made a good point when he said that if the UN Tribunal awarded this case in favor of the Philippines, we can "rightfully" enforce our own laws (even militarily if needed) as we will have jurisdictional authority over these areas, sanctioned by UN... especially the PH EEZ...

Big question is how would China react, if in case, the UN invalidates its 9-dash line claim...

Edited by Mckoyzzz, Feb 20 2013, 03:55 PM.
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wily_pest
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How will China react when the Phil. get validation from the UN?

They will still claim that historical records are on their side and they will not recognize the UN mandate. It will be business as usual for them in the Phil. EEZ.

However, as Pach had already mentioned, any counter moves the PN and PAF will do, will be deemed by the UN as legitimate and legal. This does not guarantee that UN forces will be sent to aid the Phil. though.

That's why it is still important that the milt. modernization continue on the right track. In fact, congress should increase milt. modernization budget bec. China is desperate for oil, nat. gas and food. As long as they have a LIE to use against the Phil. and the UN, they will continue to lie and plunder. China will only stop if there is a formidable military blocking their way.

CONGRESS MUST INCREASE THE MILT. MODERNIZATION BUDGET. What good are monetary savings if you are losing your natural resources and aquatic food source? And how far will they stop with their claims if they successfully took the eastern EEZ? Is there another "ancient" map on the making showing more expansion, that's being 'ancientized' in a washer and dryer with dirty sneakers and soaks? Those pacifists in congress must be weeded out.
Edited by wily_pest, Feb 20 2013, 08:43 PM.
Management of many is the same as management of few. It is a matter of organization. Sun Tzu
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