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| PH Files Case vs China Before UNCLOS Tribunal; Ph challenges China's 9-dash claims in WPS at UN Tribunal | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 22 2013, 05:03 PM (50,584 Views) | |
| raider1011 | Jan 30 2013, 05:11 PM Post #131 |
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The "merits, evidences and facts" regarding the validity of the "nine-dash line" is one thing. The jurisdiction of the arbitral tribunal is another. Two different questions entirely. The second will be decided by interpretation of the relevant provisions under UNCLOS especially Annex VII. The first will be decided after the second, when or if the arbitral tribunal decides to accept the case = proper jurisdiction. UNCLOS itself makes clear "disputes" about jurisdiction can arise and that they will be settled by the arbitral tribunal:
The question of jurisdiction will be the very first tabled. Jurisdiction before everything, that is the rule anywhere: a murder happened in Manila, do we file the case before a judge in Beijing? Same question here, who has the right to hear the case? Where is the proper forum? Edited by raider1011, Jan 30 2013, 05:13 PM.
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| Mckoyzzz | Jan 30 2013, 05:35 PM Post #132 |
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Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
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I am with you that jurisdictional matters are taken and decided first... there's no argument there... However, for me the paragraph above is vague... where will they base their decision that they do or they do not have jurisdiction over the PH-China case? This is a very sensitive case and any decisions made by the tribunal must abide by its own rules of law... otherwise, it may be questioned... Taking this into account, once a jurisdictional decision is made... the tribunal may declare: "By virtue of Article XXX Section XXX Sub-paragraph XX........ this tribunal has no jurisdiction over this case...." But that decision must be supplemented and backed by the UNCLOS law... right? Edited by Mckoyzzz, Jan 30 2013, 05:49 PM.
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![]() "Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong -- Dandemis" | |
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| raider1011 | Jan 30 2013, 06:04 PM Post #133 |
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^I said it will be decided by going to the "relevant provisions" of UNCLOS. China has an out and it's based on the exception granted by Article 298. The Philippines argues the exception is not all-inclusive: Article 298 Optional exceptions to applicability of section 2
Evidently UNCLOS recognizes multiple kinds of disputes. The case filed by DFA should not fall under (a), (b) or (c) otherwise it will be shot down because of the exception. That is not a question of "merits" or motherhood statements like "rule of law". Jurisdiction revolves around reading and interpretation of the rules themselves. Not maps or other evidence but the wording, the letter, the bare meaning of UNCLOS provisions themselves. Sa madaling salita China will try to avoid facing the music through a legal technicality. Unfair? How can we complain, we are a signatory. Nanjan yan sa pinimirmahan natin. We know this can happen. Pagalingan na lang ng abogado yan. Edited by raider1011, Jan 30 2013, 06:08 PM.
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| Mckoyzzz | Jan 30 2013, 06:31 PM Post #134 |
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Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
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Okay, okay... I got you man... relax... I just wanted to clear out my confused mind for these articles, sections, paragraphs and it's interpretations.... I'm sure marami din dito ang litong-lito... buti ka nga at mukhang mas in depth ang understanding mo sa batas na ito... Anyhow, it seemed that this is the only way out of the Chinese... battling it out with jurisdiction and possible technicalities... However, PH apparently is prepared for this eventuality...
Edited by Mckoyzzz, Jan 30 2013, 06:37 PM.
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![]() "Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong -- Dandemis" | |
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| shoot_to_kill | Jan 30 2013, 07:39 PM Post #135 |
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this was the plan back then by marcos but was stop by the americans since they don't want vietnam to have a war on two fronts( sa mga magtatanong ng links know your freaking history) at present, no need to do that, save you anger against the intsik there's no doubt that we are no cowards heck quoting mayweather he even thought that our forefathers were on steroids back then during the PHIL-Amreican war hence the introduction to the islands of the 1911 .45 |
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| shoot_to_kill | Jan 30 2013, 07:54 PM Post #136 |
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let's assume the tribunal has no jurisdiction, what would be the next step? normally to refile the case to the tribunal which has original jurisdiction. the government personnel who concocted this was no -----, he already foresaw that the chinks will use the "lack of jurisdiction card" he gambled, for what? to tell to the world about our dilemma, furthermore this was not an overnight decision, this was researched thoroughly. if the tribunal made a decision that there was indeed lack of jurisdiction then we should ask that tribunal where to file the case? dito sila mapapahiya kasi there is no other tribunal(kung sagot mo icc or icj magaral ka muna)... save them, then the unclos would just be another piece of paper and no one would respect the maritime domain of other state and the rule of the cannon will once again prevail. have faith on the person who's dealing with this, this is a game of chess and with the little time he got studying the opponents move he did a great job! why? cause he filed a case when china filed the case against japan, hence there goes the lack jurisdiction card - china cannot contend there's no jurisdiction when he himself invoked the jurisdiction of the tribunal when it filed a case their claim on senkaku is also based on their s h i t t y historical crap same with us! ganun ka simple. PERFECT TIMING FOR US china never even studied this case, since their goal is to bully us into submission. AND THE ONLY CARD THAT CHINA CAN PLAY HERE IS LACK OF JURISDICTION Edited by shoot_to_kill, Jan 30 2013, 07:59 PM.
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| icefrog | Feb 2 2013, 02:54 AM Post #137 |
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China is firm, refuses int'l arbitration over territorial row
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/china-is-firm--refuses-int-l-arbitration-over-territorial-row-111601769.html ----- As expected. They are refusing.This is already moral victory!! |
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| icefrog | Feb 2 2013, 03:21 AM Post #138 |
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China opposes taking sea disputes to UN
http://china.org.cn/world/2013-01/31/content_27855302.htm |
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| pachador | Feb 2 2013, 04:04 AM Post #139 |
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guys, we have a very good case. the lead attorney for the philippine side is the best in the world on this issue. he is a kano. we are paying him big bucks so he already gave counsel on how we will file our case, etc etc. |
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| pachador | Feb 2 2013, 08:39 AM Post #140 |
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bakit nila pinagpipilit yung bilateral talks ? ang daga na makikipag-bilateral talks sa elepante ay isang estupido na daga. noon pa man other countries including our country favor multilateral talks. mga sirang plaka ang mga ito...ad besides, there is nothing to talk about anymore because they insist on their dash line claim , essentially if we talk with them it will be surrender not negotiation since they will not negotiate. this is precisely why we are bringing it to the UN. who are they kidding ?? Edited by pachador, Feb 2 2013, 08:49 AM.
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he even thought that our forefathers were on steroids back then during the PHIL-Amreican war hence the introduction to the islands of the 1911 .45
8:33 AM Jul 11