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The possibility of CHINA's ADIZ in WPS; on "How" and " Why?" all related to the cause..
Topic Started: Dec 3 2013, 11:32 PM (3,139 Views)
Marschall
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Andres Boning
Dec 4 2013, 08:03 PM
Thanks Marschall! I wish.. If we think about it, DFA Sec. del Rosario performs and acts better than DND Sec. Gazmin, just like Enrile during the Marcos Govt. w/ resolve "at may asim!" Just like how a US DND would act.

Wrong move nga iyan eh (appointment), considering because of the exposed of some "PABAON" Generals, I'm not saying that he is one of them, but just saying that might be better for a civilian background to do the job. "Kung sa exMilitary, mas piliin ko pa si Roilo Golez former NSA."
They should just hire a couple pro bono folks from the PDFF forum.

That might speed up a couple of things.

:drunk:
"THE BEST PARENT AND GUARDIAN OF LIBERTY AMONGST MEN IS TRUTH" ~ Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei

“When learned men begin to use their reason, then I generally discover that they haven’t got any.” - G. K. Chesterton

MSantor is not a man of sound reason. Savages have always preferred the club for they know that they are powerless against the pen. But who is the greater fool - the savage or the one that gives him power? May Truth rebuke you.
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PinoyAko
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Quote:
 
Andres Boning
Before the ratification of the PH/ US Basing agreement, IF THEY AGREE w/ all the terms that we proposed, we can ask the US maybe, to include initial deliveries of (4) F-18's C,D's asap since some of are Pilots had already passed their tests,evaluations on these birds before...


Sir, any link that some of our pilots are already certified to fly F-18, if that so, we better buy it first instead of FA-50, (trainer or the "lo" mix later on) so that we must have a small teeth for Chicoms. :banana:
Sorry for OT.
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steelDUST
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On the operating costs aspect:

Though the FA-50 is 18% slower (Mach 1.5 vs 1.8) than the FA-18C/D, the Golden Eagle has a much lower FCPH (about 60-70% or $2.5k vs $13.5k or $4k vs $17k depending on sources) than the legacy Hornet.

Meanwhile, the manufacturing of brand new FA-50 and refurbishment FA-18C/D can both be delivered after one year, the advantages of fresh/unused airframe and much lower operating and through-life cycle costs favors heavily for the FA-50.
"Thou must (in commanding and winning, or serving and losing, suffering or triumphing) be either the anvil or the hammer."
- Goethe
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icefrog
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Andres Boning
Dec 4 2013, 08:03 PM
Thanks Marschall! I wish.. If we think about it, DFA Sec. del Rosario performs and acts better than DND Sec. Gazmin, just like Enrile during the Marcos Govt. w/ resolve "at may asim!" Just like how a US DND would act.

Wrong move nga iyan eh (appointment), considering because of the exposed of some "PABAON" Generals, I'm not saying that he is one of them, but just saying that might be better for a civilian background to do the job. "Kung sa exMilitary, mas piliin ko pa si Roilo Golez former NSA."
My preference would be former NDDRMC director Benito Ramos. Very pro-active when he was still in NDDRMC and the media (and therefore the public) knew what's is in his mind. We can rule out Lacson now since he already accepted the Rehab Czar post.

A civilian could be former Senator and current PRC head Dick Gordon.

Sorry, I think Roilo Golez is past his time and konte lang lamang nya kay Gazmin. Not good enough but you want a DND SEc that would be bias for the US (and maybe too bias) for them then he is your man. He was my long-time Congressman and lots of people for both the pro-RH bill and anti-RH bill hates him. The priests and other pro-RH bill felt like he was Judas escariot incarnate when at the last minute he did not vote against the RH bill after being vocal during the RH bill debates and saying he is vehemently against the RH bill and pretty much given the stage in actual Church Masses around Paranaque.

He's too much of a 'trapo' now and he's character is now very suspect because of what he did during the RH debates and actual voting. I don' think he can be trusted anymore for such a big responsibility and add that possibly being too bias for the US.

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Maubanin70
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steelDUST
Dec 5 2013, 09:46 AM
On the operating costs aspect:

Though the FA-50 is 18% slower (Mach 1.5 vs 1.8) than the FA-18C/D, the Golden Eagle has a much lower FCPH (about 60-70% or $2.5k vs $13.5k or $4k vs $17k depending on sources) than the legacy Hornet.

Meanwhile, the manufacturing of brand new FA-50 and refurbishment FA-18C/D can both be delivered after one year, the advantages of fresh/unused airframe and much lower operating and through-life cycle costs favors heavily for the FA-50.
If we add airborne refueling capability for FA-50 it will be in my honest opinion a decent defensive bird. It'll be like "trip wire."
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Judah14
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Maubanin70
Dec 5 2013, 01:38 PM
steelDUST
Dec 5 2013, 09:46 AM
On the operating costs aspect:

Though the FA-50 is 18% slower (Mach 1.5 vs 1.8) than the FA-18C/D, the Golden Eagle has a much lower FCPH (about 60-70% or $2.5k vs $13.5k or $4k vs $17k depending on sources) than the legacy Hornet.

Meanwhile, the manufacturing of brand new FA-50 and refurbishment FA-18C/D can both be delivered after one year, the advantages of fresh/unused airframe and much lower operating and through-life cycle costs favors heavily for the FA-50.
If we add airborne refueling capability for FA-50 it will be in my honest opinion a decent defensive bird. It'll be like "trip wire."
If we will do that then we must modify at least one of our C-130's into a KC-130.
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Parastriker
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Judah14
Dec 5 2013, 03:14 PM
Maubanin70
Dec 5 2013, 01:38 PM

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
If we will do that then we must modify at least one of our C-130's into a KC-130.
Or buy an old one off our neighbors, if possible.
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Andres Boning
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Let's stick closer to the topic Gentlemen! :ssalute:

Btw:There are dedicated threads for discussing Ideal MRF's for PAF, let us not get lost along the way, I only tried to suggest other options I thought that could be feasible for the PH Govt. to take advantage of the situation, to include under the negotiations of the PH/ US basing agreement since the F-18 Hornets was the PAFs first choice before..

Someone ask for a link re; F-18s evaluated by PAF before? Pls try to search old threads under "Ideal MRF for PAF" or if other comrades here knows the link, pls post.. thanks

With regards to which one would be more effective to counter/ repel China's ADIZ, to be honest, I would prefer both F-18 C,D & FA-50 for our PAF to augment the FORCE.

Indeed, fresh/unused airframe and much lower operating and life cycle costs are important and should be considered, but in comparison to what we are up against, An FA-50 is not in the same level as the F-18 C,D's, but w/ out F-18 on the picture, to have the FA-50 for our PAF is a step forward to the future and it's better than having nothing at all. (current situation)

The question that we should be asking as well is "Which MRF from the two will be more effective dancing and has more chance on survivability against a J-10 or an SU-30, 33?

I'm optimistic re; what's included on the contract, and on the PH/ US temporary basing agreement, for it can/ will help play a big factor to repel China ADIZ in WPS. Let's hope that the Philippine Govt. negotiators, DND, AFP drafted the right proposals, something majority, useful and not MONEY, for the benefit of the Philippine Armed Forces, to help and improve their defense capabilities.
Edited by Andres Boning, Dec 5 2013, 11:02 PM.
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icefrog
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As a reaction to a possible ADIZ over WPS I already made my suggestions on w/c I think is the ideal MRF for us on 2 diff. threads. :armywink:

here: http://s3.zetaboards.com/Defense_Philippines/topic/7653236/8/

and

here: http://s3.zetaboards.com/Defense_Philippines/topic/831822/364/

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Hong Nam
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Bought by China

A South China Sea ADIZ: China's Next Move

The East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone is just the beginning.

By Harry Kazianis
December 04, 2013



I hate making predictions. Truthfully, I am the type of person who likes to go to casinos for the latest sporting events or concerts and would never throw my money away in a slot machine or on the blackjack table. However, I can guarantee Vegas would lose its shirt on this bet, an easy wager to make: Look for China in the next year to eighteen months to declare an ADIZ over the South China Sea - in fact, Beijing's ambassador to the Philippines appears to have alluded to such a move. Heck, I will even take it a step further and bet the wife and dog on this one: Beijing will create such a zone in the Yellow Sea as well at some point in the near future.


Two recent factors come into play that in my view give China the rationale along with the ample cover they need to make such a move.


1) First, Washington appears to have given Beijing the green light to go forward - albeit unintentionally it seems.

"Washington is also asking China not to set up an air defense zone in the South China Sea, where Beijing is locked in territorial rows with Southeast Asian nations, without first consulting countries concerned." - Vice President Joseph Biden

So let me see if I have this correct: It would be OK if China crafted an ADIZ in the South China Sea as long as it tells its neighbors in some fashion, in advance? Considering Beijing has already made a veiled reference that it could set up additional ADIZ in the future, the timing of such a comment was ill advised at best.

Honestly, I am hoping the official was misunderstood or misspoke because if accurate, Beijing could use such wording to openly declare such a new ADIZ in the South China Sea - an area with sovereignty disputes involving multiple claimants.


2) Second, when America's Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) gave guidance that U.S. domestic carriers should inform Beijing of their flight plans.

Washington not only gave de facto approval of the East China Sea ADIZ, but also suggested that future moves would not be met with strong resistance. Any move that gives this ADIZ declaration on China's part any legitimacy will certainly be used by Beijing as a sign of acceptance.


If we got away with it once, why not try the same move again and again?

Creating an ADIZ, an area that is essentially an early-warning buffer zone for possible intrusions into a nation's airspace, is not aggressive. It is the arc of Chinese actions dating back to 2006 onward that should worry the international community. Looked upon as a whole, the trend is truly concerning.

No one is saying Beijing does not have the right as a great power and possible someday a superpower to shape the international stage in a way that is friendly to its own national interest. It is the optics of how it is going about doing it that frightens its neighbors. For all of China's worries about being contained by the U.S. "pivot" to Asia, China is doing a great job of aligning its neighbors against its actions - effectively containing itself and giving credence to the growing narrative as Asia's new regional bully. Bad move Beijing.



The Diplomat
Edited by Hong Nam, Dec 6 2013, 12:07 AM.

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