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HK Bus Hostage Tragedy 2010 (aftermath. etc.); updates, discussions
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Topic Started: Aug 23 2010, 12:08 PM (6,542 Views)
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fatbat_mca
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Aug 25 2010, 07:44 AM
Post #81
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- israeli
- Aug 25 2010, 02:04 AM
to add insult to injury:  goodness!
whats the big deal?
americans posed at took photos in the aftermath of the 9/11 wtc terrorist attack in new york city
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oh my sofie!
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fatbat_mca
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Aug 25 2010, 07:56 AM
Post #82
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- Tormentor
- Aug 24 2010, 03:20 PM
- mazingu
- Aug 24 2010, 11:21 AM
PNP-SAF offered its own assault team which is better-equipped and better-trained than the district SWAT teams but MPD refused asserting their SWAT team can do the job as well.
are you sure? do you have a reliable source bec as far as i know the SAF is not a hostage rescue unit but an anti insurgency, anti terrorism and anti-coup force.
the PNP has SWAT teams in the districts specifically for hostage rescue and raids of criminal dens.
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oh my sofie!
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MSantor
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Aug 25 2010, 08:08 AM
Post #83
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As if things can't get any worse with the fallout...it turns out a couple of Hong Kong hostages who died were Canadian citizens as well:
They were probably Chinese-Canadians; there is a huge Chinese-Canadian community here in Vancouver, as well as in other big cities like Toronto.
Associated Press link
- Quote:
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Canadians among dead on hostage bus
36 minutes ago
By Michelle Mcquigge, The Canadian Press
TORONTO - Three Canadian citizens, including a father who gave his life in an effort to protect his family, were among eight Hong Kong tourists killed Monday in a deadly hostage standoff in the Philippines that left grieving, angry family members demanding answers from authorities.
Media reports indicated there were at least five people holding Canadian passports on board the bus in the capital of Manila when it was seized by a gun-wielding former police officer, who triggered a protracted and controversial police response when he opened fire.
The three slain Canadians were identified as Ken Leung, 58, and his daughters Jessie, 14, and Doris, 21, all three of them dual citizens who lived in Hong Kong.
Leung, a managing director for Asia operations with U.K.-based electronics manufacturer Stadium Group PLC, held a Canadian passport, a spokesman said from London.
"Kens passing is an enormous shock to all of us, and our immediate concerns are for his wife, son and wider family at this most difficult time," Stadium Group chief executive Nigel Rogers said in a statement.
Leung's wife Amy Ng, who was unhurt in the melee, said her husband confronted the gunman before he was killed. The couple's son, Jason Leung, 18, remained in hospital after surgery on a head wound.
"My husband has passed away," a sobbing Ng said Tuesday as she was comforted by several companions. "My son is in the ICU. I thought I would fight for survival so I could take care of my children, but two of them have already died."
Two of the Leung children were studying in Canada. Jason Leung attended Bronte College of Canada, an exclusive private school for foreign-exchange students in Mississauga, west of Toronto.
School officials said Jason Leung is a Canadian student who graduated last month and left for Hong Kong soon after to meet with his family.
"He is a nice kid who never got in trouble," Ron Taylor, the school's resident co-ordinator said on Tuesday.
Taylor said that Jason's sister Doris, who was killed in the standoff, was a University of Toronto student.
Tributes to the family soon began appearing online.
"Hope you get well soon Jason, I'm so sorry for your loss," wrote one acquaintance and Twitter user who described the teen as a "really nice guy."
Katrina Chiu said she knew Doris Leung only tangentially after the pair attended the same school. She expressed regret for the senseless violence that claimed her life and devastated her family.
"They were innocent people who didn't deserve to die," Chiu wrote in an email.
The Philippines acknowledged "inadequacies" in its handling of the crisis as anger over the botched negotiations erupted in Hong Kong with demonstrations and harsh words.
President Benigno Aquino, facing his first major crisis since taking office June 30, declared Wednesday a national day of mourning in solidarity with the people of Hong Kong to "share their sorrow," his spokesman Edwin Lacierda said.
Officials promised a full investigation into how the hijacker dismissed cop Rolando Mendoza, who was demanding his job back was able to gun down eight of the 15 hostages on board the bus before a sniper killed him and officers were finally able to get into the vehicle. Seven other hostages survived the final bloodbath, which came after a 12-hour standoff at a seaside Manila park.
Philippine Interior Secretary Jessie Robredo, who is in charge of the national police, acknowledged Tuesday there were problems with how the crisis was handled.
"Had we been better prepared, better equipped, better trained, maybe the response would have been quicker despite the difficulty," Robredo said.
He added, "All the inadequacies happened at the same time."
Philippine police had defended their actions pointing out that officers lacking proper equipment had risked their lives in trying to bring the standoff to an end. But they promised to review all events leading to the deaths.
In Hong Kong, sorrow quickly evolved into outrage, with several of the semi-autonomous Chinese territory's political parties leading protesters to the Philippine Consulate.
Demonstrators chanted, "You caused the deaths of Hong Kongers," and one protester scuffled with a security guard.
"We think the Philippine government used the wrong strategy. We think the operation failed," pro-Beijing legislator Lau Kong-wah told reporters.
On Tuesday, Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs would only acknowledge the possibility that there were Canadians on board, and said the Canadian mission in Manila was working closely with local authorities to try to get more information.
Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon issued a statement expressing condolences for "those who have been affected by this terrible tragedy," a sentiment later echoed by Prime Minister Stephen Harper during a stop Tuesday in Churchill, Man.
"I haven't had a chance to speak to anyone involved, officials obviously are following this very closely and I'm not in a position to give any details, but we do know that there are deaths involved in this incident," Harper said.
"It is a terrible and a tragic incident and obviously I just want to take the opportunity to express my condolences on my behalf and obviously on behalf of the entire government and the families of those who lost loved ones in this particular tragedy."
(...)
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spearhead
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Aug 25 2010, 09:04 AM
Post #84
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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- israeli
- Aug 25 2010, 02:04 AM
to add insult to injury:  goodness!
Balita ko naging tourist spot na nga yang crime scene. Even a british family had photos taken around it, was also interviewed and said they werent worried and even moved by the incident.
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"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato
 
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spearhead
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Aug 25 2010, 09:19 AM
Post #85
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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- edwin
- Aug 24 2010, 07:23 PM
- raider1011
- Aug 24 2010, 01:32 PM
^My god, so the solution was in plain sight? Bakit hindi nila alam iyan? Kahit yung sniper hindi napansin?
Isn't knowing about information like emergency opening mechanisms part of their job? The worst attitude to take is for people to just shrug their shoulders and say the police did their duty. Enough complacency.
SWAT nga sila eh.... Sorry Wala Ako Training....Special Weapons Alang Tactic..
kaw talaga o
Well s@#t happens, but this one clearly was a chaotic, unorganized rescue operation that resulted in a total failure to end it peacefully.
First of all, were those snipers using some thermal scopes and how did they got mendoza's head blew up like that when it was really dark inside the bus while part of the front windshield were shattered and cracked making the visibility difficult for the snipers? Was it just a lucky headshot while they were shooting indiscriminately inside the bus?
Did the bus driver's initial report that all of the hostages were already killed have an impact to commandos precautionary procedures and that di na sila ganun nagingat? Because i think so.
Oh well it was a total mess..... crap....
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"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato
 
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spearhead
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Aug 25 2010, 09:45 AM
Post #86
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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- mazingu
- Aug 24 2010, 11:21 AM
We surely seen atleast one of the vehicles from that photo were used to force opened the rear emergency hatch door.
Yep all spot lights were on, media were on while mr. mendoza had an access watching it live from inside the bus, plus commandos were not completely armed even with throat mikes and NVG to supress the lone gunman at dark, no flashbangs and explosive devices used to blow up the windows for a quick entry, and finally we seen no ladders were used to board the bus. Oh yeah the cops also took a long march and crouching instead of using vehicles to quickly approach the bus with all their equipments, but oh well hehe...........
Im surprised though that the PNP-SAF were not specially trained on this kind of situation, oh crap, i think not even those local tactical police.
But hey, one bright observation here, there were not much elite units in the world have ever dealed with EEXACT the same situation like what just happened in manila, only a few foreign special units actually had a similar experiences from israel's IDF special units, and a similar russian commando unit who stormed a bus in 1995 with 0 hostage casualty:
RUSSIAN EXPERIENCE:
- Quote:
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October 15, 1995 MOSCOW Firing into the air, Russian commandos swarmed onto a tour bus near the Kremlin early today, freeing four South Koreans and a Russian driver held hostage for 10 hours by a rifle-wielding assailant. The gunman died during the attack. About 20 commandos attacked the bus before dawn, unleashing a barrage of gunfire and tossing stun grenades. Several commandos crawled through the bus windows. The five freed men were hustled from the bus looking shaken and dazed. The Interfax news agency reported that all were freed unhurt. About 20 other hostages had been released in the hours before. The dead gunman was Russian, Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzhkov said. "We do not
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/15/world/ru...-in-moscow.html
IDF "Coastal Road massacre" EXPERIENCE:
- Quote:
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During the ride, the militants shot and threw grenades at passing cars, shot at the passengers and threw at least one body out of the bus.[5] At one point they commandeered another bus, and forced the passengers from the first bus to board the second one.[5] The bus was finally stopped by a police roadblock near Herzliya, and a long shooting battle ensued.[5] Passengers who attempted to escape were shot.[5] Time magazine speculated that more hostages may have been killed by the wild shooting of the police than by the terrorists."[10] An explosion, caused either by an exploding fuel tank, or a grenade set the bus on fire.[11] Thirty-eight civilians were killed in the attack, thirteen of them children, and seventy-one were wounded. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_Massacre
Thats why i hate those foreigners who trash talking us all over the world.
Well i seen some retraining of filipino tactical police and try to perfect this one next time, as its always good for them to be always prepared at all times and at any situation.
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"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato
 
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spearhead
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Aug 25 2010, 11:13 AM
Post #87
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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- Fmr TOPP Awardee 82'PNP
- Aug 24 2010, 12:37 PM
Although the siege was over with quite unpleasant consequences, there were opportunities being missed out to minimize the casualties like for instance when the hostage taker was in full view standing and waving at the entrance of the bus with his weapon being in a neutral position. It could have been the best chance for a sharp shooter to come into play.
In a hostage situation, where the hostage taker is armed to the teeth, negotiating scheme is only a secondary facade to give chance to the marksmen to gain the possible safe and convenient angle to shoot. Nobody is really in perfect posture to handle such a situation, but at least a combination of presence of mind and patience with simple precision should have been considered in a very careful option in such a very difficult situation.
Nevertheless, the police were religiously doing there job with much enthusiasm to control the situation. It just ended the hard way.
I think it was more like cops vs cops so, it was hard for them to just kill their own fellow officers even though some of them already knew that mr. mendoza was already been terminated from his job. But then, the opportunity like what you said, they could have just shot his legs, then wrestled him right away as soon as he drops down on the floor and out from the bus. It was indeed a perfect chance they blew up.
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"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato
 
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spraret
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Aug 25 2010, 12:23 PM
Post #88
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Jeff Canoy: 4 SWAT team leaders at Quirino hostage crisis "administratively relieved" pending investigation.
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raider1011
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Aug 25 2010, 12:32 PM
Post #89
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Link: Aquino, PNP admit mistakes were made
The CIC speaks frankly and extensively about the tragedy.
- Quote:
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Cruz said that a Special Action Force was on standby but that authorities allowed the police on the ground to continue with the negotiations. In a hostage situation, whatever force committed there should not be pulled out.
Confirming the assault was not performed by PNP SAF. I'm not as certain the "principle" invoked for holding back the PNP's elite unit reflected the reality on the ground.
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seven bravo
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Aug 25 2010, 12:40 PM
Post #90
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- fatbat_mca
- Aug 25 2010, 07:56 AM
- Tormentor
- Aug 24 2010, 03:20 PM
- mazingu
- Aug 24 2010, 11:21 AM
PNP-SAF offered its own assault team which is better-equipped and better-trained than the district SWAT teams but MPD refused asserting their SWAT team can do the job as well.
are you sure? do you have a reliable source bec as far as i know the SAF is not a hostage rescue unit but an anti insurgency, anti terrorism and anti-coup force. the PNP has SWAT teams in the districts specifically for hostage rescue and raids of criminal dens.
Just to confirm SAF had alpha and bravo teams on standby, fully equipped & ready - this was communicated through proper command channels but nothing came of it.
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