Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Philippines Defense Forces Forum. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Philippine Navy in the market for 4 Anti-Submarine Warfare helicopters
Topic Started: Aug 19 2012, 01:50 PM (10,159 Views)
spearhead
Member Avatar
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
seWer Rat
Aug 20 2012, 03:45 PM
spearhead
Aug 19 2012, 07:51 PM
I think the 10 Eurocopter AH are a separate acquisition. Mr Burgos himself declined to identify the manufacturer of the proposed 4 naval choppers.
Possible indeed since the JDW report said the AW-109 will got to the PN and PMC (first armed helicopter for the Philippine Marines?).

If this is the case, then we are looking at 4 as yet unknown ASW airframes separate from these 10 AW-109s.
The JDW probably meant ASW choppers in the form of AW109 going to the PN (10 Fennecs for PAF).

I heard the PN is determined to acquire some of this AW109-LUH (Light Utility Helicopters), while this variant is not totally designed for ASW, but it can have an overall effect for SAR, armed reconnaissance, and maritime surveillance patrol, etc., depending the availability of their conversion kits and which ones the PN are getting.

New Zealand have ordered 5 of this variant in 2008 for 57Million Euro (PHP2.9B) with a dedicated simulator.

Quote:
 

Posted Image

The AW109 LUH will represent a significant advance in training activities for the service's crews and will provide the NZDF with a seamless and cost effective platform to train pilots onto frontline helicopters such as the NH90 and Sea Sprite helicopters ensuring both land and naval capabilities. In addition to this role, the five AW109 LUHs will also provide operational support for other government agencies, including Police, Customs, Department of Conservation and Ministry of Fisheries, carrying out air transport, search and rescue, aero-medical evacuation, disaster response and surveillance and counter terrorism support missions.

The AW109 Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) has become the world's best selling military light-twin helicopter, with orders for over 70 helicopters from various customers so far and the largest part of units already delivered, able to satisfy a wide range of land-based as well as sea-based requirements. The AW109 LUH offers state-of-the-art mission-dedicated technology and equipment enhancing operational effectiveness while reducing pilot workload, together with unmatched performance, reliability, availability, serviceability and safety standards. Current operators worldwide use their AW109 LUHs in the most various and demanding weather and environmental conditions to perform several roles also including training, troop transport, medical evacuation, search and rescue, maritime patrol, observation, armed escort and anti-armour. New Zealand Defence Force adds to a number of leading customers worldwide relying upon AgustaWestland as an established provider of both advanced specialized platforms and professional full mission and flight simulated and synthetic training services and solutions. The AW109 LUH is already being operated for training tasks in Sweden, South Africa and Malaysia. Moreover, AgustaWestland and Boeing Australia Limited announced in February the sign of a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) that is seeing them working collaboratively to provide an innovative integrated helicopter aircrew training system based on the AW109 LUH.

http://www.agustawestland.com/node/3477

"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
spearhead
Member Avatar
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Hong Nam
Aug 20 2012, 12:03 AM
spearhead
Aug 19 2012, 07:51 PM
I think the 10 Eurocopter AH are a separate acquisition. Mr Burgos himself declined to identify the manufacturer of the proposed 4 naval choppers.
This is the way I understood it.

Be that said. The article confuses me even more. Instead of getting a clearer picture, everything gets muddled and more questions arise.

4 ASW helicopters for the WHEC' and the 2 Maestrales....
1) No more Maestrales and WHEC's?
2) Maestrales can accommodate 2 helicopters. Will they be using only one?
3) What helicopters are they talking about? AW-109's?

If they are AW-109's...
1) Will they have dipping sonars or just sonar buoys?
2) Will they be capable of launching light weight torpedoes?
3) Will they capable of providing mid-course guidance to the Otomat's?

One thing is for sure. They have managed to make confusion into an art form. I wonder if this is deliberate or they themselves are confused just like the rest of us.

On the lighter side... It's good exercise of the brain especially with regards to deductions and analysis. Oh how I wish I had a crystal ball.

:armycheers:


The reported AW109 acquisition might not be included in the PN Desired Force Mix, but it's more like an interim/stop gap acquisition.

So me thinks there are 2 naval chopper projects being mold by the PN. 1 is for a lightweight ASW/MPA, and another for a true 4 fulltime ASW choppers that is being proposed.

The lightweight naval choppers will be assigned to PN's 2 Hamilton class ships, desirably might be also used to escort the marine troopers and other recon missions for both land and sea. Meanwhile the proposed 4 true and dedicated ASW chopers maybe used solely for WPS, and will be permanently assigned to 2 Maestrale frigates (2 choppers each).
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hong Nam
Member Avatar
Bought by China

raider1011
Aug 20 2012, 08:15 AM
Dipping sonar doubtful if not impossible limited cabin size limited payload. Dipping sonar isn't necessarily required for an "ASW helicopter".

Different uses of helicopter in ASW operations

REACTIVE MODE ( PONY ): The Helicopter, armed with Torpedo (es), is on Alert in Flight or on deck ready to kill the enemy submarine, under the guidance of a unit holding the submarine in contact.
ACTIVE MODE ( DIPPER ): The Helicopter, armed with torpedoes, and Equipped with Sonics ( Dipping Sonar and Sonobuoys ) with detect, Classify, Prosecute and kill the enemy submarine or guide another unit into the submarine attack.

Active "dipper" a role requiring bigger more powerful a/c such as Super Lynx and Seahawk. AW109 is more likely (part-time pony/dipper) they will probably concentrate on gaining experience before writing down the specifications for such a complex requirement as a true multi-role naval helicopter.
Just what I feared. I am an active person so I prefer a "dipper" as I like to dip. :lollol:

Seriously.... A dipper is more effective than a pony. It's okay though because I think they will get one as soon as they are able.

:armycheers:

Posted Image
Constructions Mecaniques de Normandie - C Sword 90



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fernandez705
Member
[ *  *  * ]
hopefully its part of the maestrale deal para a sweet deall for phil navy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
spearhead
Member Avatar
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I just reviewed the PN Desired Force Mix, merong 8 dedicated ASW choppers, and 18 other light multirole choppers, baka yun yung AW109 na gusto nila, and this is only for the navy.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
dewey
Member Avatar
metro aide sweeper

very probable spear. im thinking that theyre gonna embark 1 asw and 1 multirole chopper for the maestrale.

anyway, im still hopeful that the italians give or at least dnd buys 1 ab212 for each of the maestrale
IDI@T!!! COWARD!!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
spearhead
Member Avatar
DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
If they will indeed assign 2 ASW choppers on each maestrales, 1 dedicated and one lightweight. Another possibility, me thinks they will assign atleast 1 or 2 AW109 on each MRVs. This way they could both support any maritime patrol/recon missions and ground support including both combat and natural disaster relief/humanitarian missions.
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
fernandez705
Member
[ *  *  * ]
spearhead
Aug 21 2012, 08:59 AM
I just reviewed the PN Desired Force Mix, merong 8 dedicated ASW choppers, and 18 other light multirole choppers, baka yun yung AW109 na gusto nila, and this is only for the navy.
dedicated asw chopper: lynx family
multipurpose chopper: aw109

:specool:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
boybim
Member
[ *  *  * ]
i agree with some that perhaps, the A109 is the considered multirole LUH.Im not :specool: surprised the LUH was purchased first rather than the expensive ASUW heli. the A109 for the swedes and kiwis were used for ASUW training platforms for NAG that they have onboard their navy. AsUW such as the Lynx or much so any MH60 variant like the seahawk are complicathed helicopters that involves further operational trainigon lighter platforms. i see the A109 as a serious interim,albeit the PN multirole for the moment. the A109 will always have its place wheteher for the Maestrale as the 2nd heli or the SSV.it is custom to mix multirole helis and asuw helis on a single ship, much like the seahawks and S70's of the RTN. :specool:

I am at favor IMHO on the A109 than the Fennec even the ASUW one. the malaysians has limited use on them aborad for their intended ASUW training and were relegated to multirle duties,albeit a very very small heli for multirole. teh A109 is bigger, carries heavier,has more range and are a lot faster than the Fennec.it may still be light, but just light enough and can be used for LOH duties on WPS like what the Malasysian army uses them for. i just wish theyd come with all the bangs for an all weather heli, FLIR or gyro equipped, winch at door, fully navalized platforms :specool: this will be good tandem if we get the super lynx or the seahawk, or the best ASUW there is, the MM60
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
romayu
Trainee
[ *  * ]
i hope it would be the aw-101... it has a load capacity for troops and is currently being used by the royal navy for anti submarine duty... :salute:
Edited by romayu, Aug 22 2012, 04:59 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Philippine Navy · Next Topic »
Add Reply