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| Philippine Navy in the market for 4 Anti-Submarine Warfare helicopters | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 19 2012, 01:50 PM (10,160 Views) | |
| Hong Nam | Aug 20 2012, 12:03 AM Post #11 |
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Bought by China
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This is the way I understood it. Be that said. The article confuses me even more. Instead of getting a clearer picture, everything gets muddled and more questions arise. 4 ASW helicopters for the WHEC' and the 2 Maestrales.... 1) No more Maestrales and WHEC's? 2) Maestrales can accommodate 2 helicopters. Will they be using only one? 3) What helicopters are they talking about? AW-109's? If they are AW-109's... 1) Will they have dipping sonars or just sonar buoys? 2) Will they be capable of launching light weight torpedoes? 3) Will they capable of providing mid-course guidance to the Otomat's? One thing is for sure. They have managed to make confusion into an art form. I wonder if this is deliberate or they themselves are confused just like the rest of us. On the lighter side... It's good exercise of the brain especially with regards to deductions and analysis. Oh how I wish I had a crystal ball. Edited by Hong Nam, Aug 20 2012, 12:05 AM.
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| Hong Nam | Aug 20 2012, 12:21 AM Post #12 |
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Bought by China
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Can the Maestrales' handle only 1 helicopter? |
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| Banshee | Aug 20 2012, 12:34 AM Post #13 |
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I bet AS565 MB Panther. |
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| spearhead | Aug 20 2012, 12:40 AM Post #14 |
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DoctorNO, Your Neutral Observer.
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1. The reported 2 additional Maestrales are just an interim acquisition, so it doesn't mean they would stop after the 2nd italian warship. 2. Most ASW choppers are equipped with various type of sonars including those retractable/dipping sonar or air-dropped sonobuoys. 3. DND didn't say hey are getting the Eurocopter Tiger. So it could be anything made by Eurocopter and they have developed various type of military helicopters. |
"Men of War must learn the art of numbers or he will not know how to array his troops." - Plato![]() ![]() | |
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| Parastriker | Aug 20 2012, 07:21 AM Post #15 |
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The Maestrales have two hangars. So, it could handle two helis. Although, if my assumption is correct, 2 of those would be on the Maestrale, and the remaining 2 on the GDP-Class. |
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Success through information, victory through disinformation. "Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers." "Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar." | |
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| raider1011 | Aug 20 2012, 08:15 AM Post #16 |
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Hong Nam, your post from another thread:
Translated they originally had 138 projects on tap until the purchase of the frigate(s) and medium lift aircraft bumped the number to 140. Funded by the modernization law which is PHP 75 billion for the first 5 years (probably corresponding to the Medium Term Defense Acquisition List from sewer rat's article). 11.7 billion for Maestrales 1/6th of the budget so yes IMO doubtful we're seeing more Maestrales at least for the next 5 years. WHECs on the other hand first two paid for before passage of the law third WHEC mentioned but has the Maestrale deal superseded this? No clear statements but probable: weeks ago they floated 3 helicopters for 3 WHECs but now they're talking 4 for 2 WHECs and 2 Maestrales. Equipment if it's AW109s sonobuoy capability was contracted for Swedish A109s (based on datalinks) so there's precedent. Dipping sonar doubtful if not impossible limited cabin size limited payload. Dipping sonar isn't necessarily required for an "ASW helicopter".
AW109 light but fast more suited as "pony" torpedo carrier relying on another a/c's sensors (or ship's sonar) to find targets. Requiring datalink also usable for ASuW/OTHT. Maestrale hangar can fit two helicopters if equipped with folding rotor blades. Active "dipper" a role requiring bigger more powerful a/c such as Super Lynx and Seahawk. AW109 is more likely (part-time pony/dipper) they will probably concentrate on gaining experience before writing down the specifications for such a complex requirement as a true multi-role naval helicopter. Edited by raider1011, Aug 20 2012, 08:38 AM.
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God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. || Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. || Mark Twain | |
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| Uruzu | Aug 20 2012, 10:02 AM Post #17 |
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Hm...I see we're talking about the AW-109. Problem is it's size. Check photos of AW-109 on wiki or somewhere else. It's small and has tiny cabin space. I very doubt it has the space or the engine power to handle all those sonar-buoys, dipping sonar, torpedoes. This is probably the reason why the AW-109 is mostly used for transport duties around the world, and no operational ASW versions exist. Is asking Eurocopter to develop an ''half assed'' ASW version (since the AW-109 was never designed to be a sub hunter in the first place) to meet Philippines needs really feasible? All those weapon , sensor system integration costs money and time and often result in delays and technical difficulties. It might end up cheaper buying 4 MH-60Rs instead. They are proper sub hunters, and are (from wiki) equiiped with ASE package, MTS-FLIR, an advanced airborne fleet data link, and a more advanced airborne active sonar, plus MK-54 torps and Hellfire missiles. Moreover they are already operationally proven. |
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| Parastriker | Aug 20 2012, 10:10 AM Post #18 |
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May I remind you that the AW-109 is just an "if" and might not be at all our projected acquisition. Anyway, thanks for your view about the AW-109 and its seemingly limited capabilities. |
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Success through information, victory through disinformation. "Good leaders make efficient followers. Great leaders make good followers. But true leaders make leaders out of mere followers." "Measuring the intelligence of a common internet user is as easy as looking at his/her grammar." | |
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| Hong Nam | Aug 20 2012, 02:35 PM Post #19 |
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Bought by China
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Thank you gentlemen. I just wish these press releases were clearer and more consistent. Much appreciated.
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| seWer Rat | Aug 20 2012, 03:45 PM Post #20 |
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amateur sewer cleaner
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Possible indeed since the JDW report said the AW-109 will got to the PN and PMC (first armed helicopter for the Philippine Marines?). If this is the case, then we are looking at 4 as yet unknown ASW airframes separate from these 10 AW-109s. |
| To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING. | |
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8:47 AM Jul 11