Don't you think it's high time for us to get out of our comfort zone?

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Don't you think it's high time for us to get out of our comfort zone?
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 1 2012, 05:08 PM (2,080 Views)
israeli	Aug 1 2012, 05:08 PM Post #1
Posts: 3,069 Group: Elite Member #22 Joined: July 13, 2004	i have been wondering about this for quite some time now. i dunno if this is the right time and PDFF is the right venue for me to write about this. well, i am going to take advantage of the opportunity that it is here before me. for the longest time now, discussions related to Western-made weapons and equipment, our traditional choices and sources for our military, and those that came non-traditional sources such as Russia have been raised on this forum. a lot of factors, advantages and disadvantages have been considered, especially those concerning acquisition, operation and maintenance costs. they are definitely valid and are worthy of being factored in when it comes to planning our next moves. however, we are in this situation that calls for a response to both external threats and internal threats. we have focused too much on the still continuing internal strife that was brought about by the Communists and the Islamofascists that we neglected our external defenses, causing our neighbors, most especially China, to take advantage of the situation. now, our negligence in beefing up our external defenses is haunting us, with the likes of the Panatag Shoal incident, the Subi Reef incident and the grounding of a PLAN Jianghu V class frigate near Palawan occurring just in a span of years. we are also facing issues involving limited funds and too much red tape and politics when it comes to buying Western-made weapons and equipment. for example, we could not get the armaments that we need from the US because they are beyond our budget. also taking the American example, we could not get the things that we wish to obtain from the Americans because either the Americans do not think that we are ready for those things or some wise guy at Capitol Hill or the State Department opposed the deal due to our so-called "poor human rights record". the politics, the red tape, the budgetary limitations and our fear of becoming flexible taking their toll on our ability to protect our country's territory, interests, independence and sovereignty from both external threats and internal threats. how long can we allow these things to put artificial limitations on us? how long can we afford to limit ourselves to only a certain things because we have this self-imposed fear that we cannot go beyond our comfort zone even if doing so would mean long-term protection of our country's territory, interests, independence and sovereignty from both external threats and internal threats? i believe that given all of the considerations that we factored in, all of the discussions posted here, etc., it is high time for us to go beyond our comfort zone and put only one thing in mind: get the weapons and equipment, regardless of the source, for as long as they could serve our interests, and the missions that they are supposed to perform and fulfill. if we have to obtain weapons and equipment from the Russians in order to protect our country's territory, interests, independence and sovereignty from both external threats and internal threats, then, by all means, let us do it. in the process of doing so, let us consider all factors not to limit ourselves but to adjust to the new realities that we are about to face should we push through with such a goal. we are an intelligent people, which is why i believe that we can be flexible to our military needs, whether we are using Western or non-Western weapons or equipment. a food for thought for everyone here at Timawa as a way for me to conclude my post: what would you choose, a military that is equipped mostly with Western-made weapons and equipment but are sorely lacking in dealing with most pressing issues of the day, especially in protecting our interests in the West Philippine Sea (e.g. a PAF that is only equipped with "pwede na yan" MRFs, a.k.a. LIFT/SAA, that could not even go up face-to-face with an armed Su-30MKK of the PLAAF), or an AFP that has the likes of the Su-30MK Flankers, Mi-24/Mi-35 Hinds, Mi-17 Hips, W-3 Sokols, Gepard class frigates and Club K missiles, all of which are very useful in dealing with both external threats and internal threats?
	"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz


ni84	Aug 1 2012, 06:24 PM Post #2
Posts: 2,503 Group: Elite Member #7,006 Joined: August 16, 2011	Another thing to ponder, many western nations or US allied nations are actually conducting military technical cooperation and R & D together with Russia. For example France and Russia recently concluded the deal for Mistral Class Amphibious Assault Ships and possible development and production of a new type of armored fighting vehicles, Italy are also in the R & D project with Russia like the S1000 submarine and the South Koreans who conducted a joint development of the Cheolmae II M-SAM. Also in my understanding the Russians want to contain China in the Pacific because their are indications that China wants to have a piece of the Arctic pie as well. In a geopolitical realtiy the Russians do not want China's naval power to grow beyond the Pacific and eventually spread to the resource rich arctic. Edited by ni84, Aug 1 2012, 06:24 PM.
	We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC radio broadcast, 1941 We'll settle this the old navy way: first guy to die, loses. President Thomas 'Tug' Benson, Hot Shots! Part Deux Raketnye voyska strategicheskogo naznacheniya Rossiyskoy Federatsii 15,000 nukes and enough for another 40,000


seWer Rat	Aug 1 2012, 06:37 PM Post #3
amateur sewer cleaner Posts: 3,124 Group: Elite Member #87 Joined: August 19, 2004	There's already a thread about this: http://s3.zetaboards.com/Defense_Philippines/topic/830430/9/
	To avoid criticism, write nothing, say nothing, do nothing, BE NOTHING.


israeli	Aug 1 2012, 07:00 PM Post #4
Posts: 3,069 Group: Elite Member #22 Joined: July 13, 2004	^ the term "non-traditional sources" is not limited to the Russians. for example, Poland, an ex-Soviet bloc country is a non-traditional source for weapons and equipment for a Western-oriented military like the AFP. we already made our first major acquisition of a weapon or equipment from a non-traditional source in the form of W-3 Sokol helicopters from Poland. if we did it with the Sokols, then we could go further by considering the likes of the Su-30MK Flanker, Mi-24/Mi-35 Hind, Gepard class frigates and Club K missiles as long as we are going to plan and execute things carefully. Edited by israeli, Aug 1 2012, 07:01 PM.
	"To secure peace is to prepare for war." - Carl Von Clausewitz


Samir_Duran	Aug 1 2012, 07:36 PM Post #5
THE GHOST Posts: 1,276 Group: Regulars Member #6,179 Joined: January 12, 2011	" reading between the lines"



raider1011	Aug 1 2012, 07:54 PM Post #6
Posts: 8,216 Group: Elite Member #5,752 Joined: September 18, 2009	We should have the end-goal of becoming independent of foreign suppliers. Vietnam is getting the technology to make Russian antiship missiles. Another country sharing this kind of technology is Italy.
	God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. \|\| Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. \|\| Mark Twain


flipzi	Aug 1 2012, 08:31 PM Post #7
R-A-T-S Posts: 8,213 Group: Elite Member #71 Joined: August 8, 2004	Russian technology is respectable. even in the IT and telecoms, they are now in partnership with Philippine companies. the Russian military technology will help us a lot. moreover, they are more easy to deal with than the US.
	" Sovereignty resides in the people and all government authority emanates from them! - Art. II Sec 1, Philippine Constitution " " People don't care what we know until they know we care. " getflipzi@yahoo.com


ni84	Aug 2 2012, 08:26 AM Post #8
Posts: 2,503 Group: Elite Member #7,006 Joined: August 16, 2011	raider1011 Aug 1 2012, 07:54 PM We should have the end-goal of becoming independent of foreign suppliers. Vietnam is getting the technology to make Russian antiship missiles. Another country sharing this kind of technology is Italy. The head of the Tactical Missile Corporation did mention that they are going to build a manifacturing facility in Vietnam for the production of precision guided weapons.
	We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC radio broadcast, 1941 We'll settle this the old navy way: first guy to die, loses. President Thomas 'Tug' Benson, Hot Shots! Part Deux Raketnye voyska strategicheskogo naznacheniya Rossiyskoy Federatsii 15,000 nukes and enough for another 40,000


ni84	Aug 2 2012, 09:50 AM Post #9
Posts: 2,503 Group: Elite Member #7,006 Joined: August 16, 2011	Here is the link: http://www.9abc.net/archives/76975 Russian-Vietnamese joint missile factory.
	We shall not fail or falter; we shall not weaken or tire...Give us the tools and we will finish the job. Sir Winston Churchill, BBC radio broadcast, 1941 We'll settle this the old navy way: first guy to die, loses. President Thomas 'Tug' Benson, Hot Shots! Part Deux Raketnye voyska strategicheskogo naznacheniya Rossiyskoy Federatsii 15,000 nukes and enough for another 40,000


raider1011	Aug 9 2012, 06:23 PM Post #10
Posts: 8,216 Group: Elite Member #5,752 Joined: September 18, 2009	Another Asian nation using Russian missile technology to develop their own: Quote: The Agency for Defense Development has developed the medium-range surface-to-air missile dubbed "Cheongung" or "Iron Hawk" II, a spokesman said on Thursday. Korea is the fifth country after Russia, France, Taiwan and Japan to have developed such a weapon. The U.S. is currently developing a high-tech medium-range surface-to-air missile in cooperation with Italy and Germany. . . . The ADD began development of the Cheongung in 2006, but started research in 2001 based on Russia's S-400 missile system. In cooperation with Russia, a Korean engineering team replaced a massive Russian radar system with a small device, which can be installed on a truck. The team also began research on a missile propulsion system based on the small Russian-made 9M96 missile. The radar is installed at the head of the missile to let it trace its own target. Chosun Ilbo No flames . . . "cold-launch" system common to Russian missile types.
	God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless. \|\| Chester W. Nimitz Loyalty to the Nation ALL the time, loyalty to the Government when it deserves it. \|\| Mark Twain


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