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RP Time: OST
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| Grumpy Old Man Doesn't Know when to Stop; talkin' bout the good ol' days | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 14 2010, 04:36 AM (599 Views) | |
| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 04:36 AM Post #1 |
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On War Yeah, i've been reading Clauswitz. I probably am a little bit big-headed because of it. But don't worry, this will be in line with the other Grumpy Old Man discussions. In the book, "On War", Clauswitz describes war as a continuation of policy. In War, if you are not Constantly advancing, you are not doing anything. You don't go to war for no reason. Back then, before high technology, war was treated the way we treat nuclear technology here. Kind of. Identify the Problem Basically, as iv'e been reading this, i've been thinking "Wow....we got o war way too often" War is not "Diplomacy by other means" its "Politics by other means". i know its hard to differentiate the two, but killing a diplomat does not mean "RAWR LETS GO TO WAR" it means you react proportionally. SCENARIO TIME. ----- Diplomacy as means for war: Person 1: I've sent you my diplomat Person 2: LAWLZ i sh00t y00 n00b Person 1: RAWR LETS GO TO WAR! ----- Here is why this is bad. 1: Going to war, what is your objective? To conquer? All because they killed a diplomat? Disproportionate response. To "invade" the definition of which is to enter, cause havoc, and leave: No, because thats the same poor response. Going to war because of killed diplomats is stupid. The same scenario, with a proper response: ----- Person 1: I've sent you my diplomat Person 2: LAWLZ i sh00t y00 n00b Person 1: I've kidnapped 200 of your citizens that are currently in my country. Give me a million dollars or they all die. Person 2: Uh... ----- RECALL: The Iran Hostage Crisis. If i recall correctly, we did NOT go to war because of that, we were working on ways to rescue them. They were released when Reagan became president. Similarly, in this situation, you are using alternative means to accomplish a goal that is proportional to the initial act. And, if Person 2 were to continue this, they would run out of millions of dollars to give, or to spend on figuring out a rescue plan. Heres another Scenario. ----- Person 1: I don't like the stuff you're building. Cut it out. Person 2: well *sticks out tongue* nyeh, try n stop me. Person 1: WOAR! ----- Neg. You all know why that is wrong. Disproportionate response. Heres how it should go. ----- Person 1: I don't like the stuff you're building. Cut it out. Person 2: Well *sticks out tongue* nyeh, try n stop me. Person 1: Cut it out or i WILL stop you. Person 2: LALALALALALA I can't hear you! Person 1: I've just cruise missiled a bunch of factories and powerplants, oh and by the way i cruise missiled a hospital too. ----- THATS how it should be done. Plus or minus the hospital thing. You don't go to war, you respond proportionately. and note: that scenario could go a number of ways, if you do it properly. People will get angry and say "Rawr but my missile defense shot down your curise missiles/shot down the airplane that delivered them!" ((they can do that, right?)) well, no. thats BS. Missile defense doesn't work automatically, it works on preparedness. you can have a system that alerts you, and makes you more prepared. But heres how this would go down in real life. Person 2: *ping* Huh, we got a bogey flying over. Person 2: Base to Bogey, you are unauthorized for flight Person 2: Hey, cut it out! Person 2: psst, someone find out what this is and escort it to our base. but while thats going on, Person 1's bogey would have already blown stuff up, and then the reaction would be to terminate the airplane. Thats assuming the two nations aren't already on a war footing. The Moral of the Story I am convinced that 90% of War-Related RP Fail comes from Godmode, which i addressed in my last rant, and Disproportionate Reaction to minor events, which i am addressing here. Everyone understands the basic concepts: War is expensive, yes. War takes time, costs lives, is politically unpopular, yes. But the huge misconception is the degree to which it is expensive and unpopular. War that lasts longer than a couple months (with modern technology thats completely possible, give or take a few more months) is going to be severely draining. Countries like Nuuk, lines, etc: They have the budget, manpower, etc, but they are at war so often that it becomes impossible to maintain. War should be a last resort to an action that persists in its Violation of Policy. Take, for example, the Magilani GSPA (Global Space Protection Act). The policy is clear cut. Don't send guns into space. The options are clear. Send stuff up in secret, send it up with permission, or don't send it up at all. The Consequences are immediate. Violation = pwn. You'll also note that the Magilani are not always engaged in war. They are prepared, but not engaged. Thats how its done. You use military power to influence policy and politics, NOT to influence diplomacy and international affairs. You do not open talks with "if you do X then we'll invade" because invasion is stupid. Invasion is the worst kind of war, the dumbest kind of war, and by god if you invade you better invade fast, because prolonged invasion is severe in its consequences. But EA, how can we solve this?! My advice would be to get the RP ministry to set up a War Review board or a checklist or something so that when people go to war, they can make sure its alright, or if a war is causing alot of problems, the RP minister can intervene. I'm not saying everything should be reviewed, just whenever theres a war that causes people to shout until their veins burst. Final Note My apologies to nations i have singled out in this post, i try to avoid it but i needed better examples. Nuuk, Lines, Magilan, i apologize. Please find it in your hearts to forgive me
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| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 10:24 AM Post #16 |
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@ LE: Something as basic as "This long until your economy collapses, hurry up" and "this long after the fact to recover" would suffice, even. but i'm sure Lucava has his own designs, he's doing a great job so far, it wouldn't be a problem if everyone had the same philosophy with regards to war. @ TGE: i've tried some massive economic reforms before, they are really difficult to maintain but entirely possible. After this space RP, i'll be devoting more effort into the trade institute and seeing what i can come up with. @ Nuuk: "im not even using that much" war is not costly on comission, any military deployment costs big bucks, even during peacetime. maintaining off-country bases can be really expensive, and deploying even a fraction of your force so far overseas as the Cartic would be popular for a day, economical for maybe a month. Another Overarching Theme There needs to be an objective for war, is another thing i got out of this Clauswitz thing. but alot of wars we have have no objective at all, its just "January 13th, woke up, had toast. A plane flew over my house, i went to war. January 14th, woke up, had toast again. No planes this time. I went to war anyway." it needs to be "i'm going to war to accomplish X by this date" but no one does that. |
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| Nuuk | Jan 14 2010, 10:27 AM Post #17 |
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That all dpeends on the culture of the people and the valeus they hold. That is to say; the USA does not apply.
Well, when I go to war; I always have a goal in mind. That is how wars operate. I have yet to see someone go to war without a goal in mind. I just never say what my goals for a war are. |
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| Lucavan Emirates | Jan 14 2010, 10:31 AM Post #18 |
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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I had a detailed step-by-step plan on how to destroy the Dyriiad Empire (and possibly Verenberg) in an all out world war... it was pretty decent, you only got to see a little bit
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| Lucavan Emirates | Jan 14 2010, 10:34 AM Post #19 |
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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In all modern cultures worldwide there is a vocal section of pacifists - to claim that your 300million+ population is completely dedicated to warfare isn't fair (or, really, anything above 60% - which is roughly the maximum proportion of any large population that'll agree on the same thing). |
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| Nuuk | Jan 14 2010, 10:54 AM Post #20 |
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And I believe Pacifism is bull-crap, but that has little to do with anything. I'm not completely dedicated to warfare, I've tried to avoid it when possible. I always warn my enemy first to stop their violent acts, but they also like to ignore my warnings. I don't strike first, I retaliate. For example, with Koponia. I had my Foreign Ambassador suggest to the King to let us out or the device would tell and they would all be dead. Koponia didn't heed and even killed my FA so he couldn't leave. The Device will die and Koponia is doomed. And two reported MIA or MIA of FA (people with high positions) in the KU over Cartic is enough to piss of many members of the nation (abet some will always be displeased, but there's no helping some). With LUN, I warned him to only to approach it from diplomatic means; he ignored me and started to slaughter the civilians there. A real slap in the face there for the Union. Not to mention killing civilians en masse. For Kamo, I warned him not to upset the PoB and asked him to give the Dyriiad Sub-continent its independent. He refused even when I told him such an action would bring us to war. We have to stick to our word. I have yet to engage in a war without warning first, and trying to avoid war first. But of course I take into account the popularity of such wars, but you can check war's relatively normal but low lost of your soldier's lives and frequent victories. Its when your people think the war is a quagmire that it becomes a problem. The only war I've lost soldiers in in the war with Kamo and I anticipated it would not be hugely popular. Other wars, other nations have been supplying the troops. I've only scourged the air with my planes. Minimal effect on the civilian populace, nothing has changed in their lives (literally) and quick easy wars. |
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| The Glorious Empire | Jan 14 2010, 10:59 AM Post #21 |
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The Helghan Empire
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I actually created a Spreadsheet that is capable of calculating Some major economic data from just a few simple data points, back when I was founding a region before i came to Caprecia. It has a few kinks in it, but its somewhat functional. |
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| Nuuk | Jan 14 2010, 11:24 AM Post #22 |
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I want to see
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| The Glorious Empire | Jan 14 2010, 11:26 AM Post #23 |
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The Helghan Empire
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I just emailed a copy to EA, PM me your email and ill send you a copy too |
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| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 11:42 AM Post #24 |
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I'm going to take this in my favored method of commentary, nuuk. And I believe Pacifism is bull-crap The pacifists beg to differ. You can't ignore them because you don't like them. thats Godmode , but that has little to do with anything It does, actually. Nay-sayers play a significant role in determining the course of a war. Vietnam, Iraq, if people didn't oppose them, then they'd already be over. iraq, at least, vietnam would have ended sooner. I'm not completely dedicated to warfare, I've tried to avoid it when possible i'll take your word for it. I always warn my enemy first to stop their violent acts, but they also like to ignore my warnings. I don't strike first, I retaliate. Forgive me, nuuk, but thats just complete, utter bullshit. As IF you can push around other nations and they'll agree right away to do your bidding. You need demonstrations, like what the US did with Japan post WW2. "Surrender?" "No." *nuked* "Surrender?" "No." *nuked* "Surrender?" "OK FINE!" you do that kind of thing. you don't say "DO what i want." "No." "ZOMFG AN ACT OF WAR IMA INVADECHOO!" For example, with Koponia. I had my Foreign Ambassador suggest to the King to let us out or the device would tell and they would all be dead. Koponia didn't heed and even killed my FA so he couldn't leave. The Device will die and Koponia is doomed. And two reported MIA or MIA of FA (people with high positions) in the KU over Cartic is enough to piss of many members of the nation (abet some will always be displeased, but there's no helping some). Despite that, your entire nation will not rally behind war because two diplomats were killed. America went to war in iraq because 2000+ people died in the twintowers and the pentagon, and pennsylvania. Just recently, some CIA operatives got killed in afghanistan. are you saying we should nuke the heck out of 'em? I dont think you are. Because that would be unreasonable, wouldn't it? Kind of like how you are being unreasonable right now with Koponia. If you've been reading my rants, you would see that my following opinion has already been described as such: THAT IS COMPLETE, UTTER GODMODE. Diplomats are not that important, and CERTAINLY not cause for WAR. tensions, yes. they could precipitate war, but not a cause in and of itself. With LUN, I warned him to only to approach it from diplomatic means; he ignored me and started to slaughter the civilians there. A real slap in the face there for the Union. Not to mention killing civilians en masse. Maybe because tahts exactly what you did to koponia, if thats what you meant by "doomed"? It goes both ways. You can't slaughter people in war, and then turn around and get mad when someone does it to you. Either way, LUN and you both have poor reason to go to war in this case. Thats what i just spent this entire post detailing, did you even READ it? For Kamo, I warned him not to upset the PoB and asked him to give the Dyriiad Sub-continent its independent. He refused even when I told him such an action would bring us to war. We have to stick to our word. You KNOW that is BS. "we have to stick to our word" my pasty white butt. No, thats like saying "stop breathing or i'll punch you" and then when they continue to breath, you explain to the police officer "but they ASKED for it!" no nuuk, it doesn't work that way. thats not a reason to go to war, thats belligerence and poor foreign policy. You fire shots across the bow, but your gut reaction is not war. and by the way, this is three wars, and presumably they have all happened in the past 3 months. thats really dang frequent. just so you know, so right now the picture i'm getting of your nation is economically in shambles, the people are pissed, and the government is corrupt and angry. I have yet to engage in a war without warning first If by war you mean "We're going to war" "ok" "RAWR! I WARNED YOU" "but thats stupid" "I WARNED YOU ITS YOUR FAULT.", and trying to avoid war first. no, your demands were completely unreasonable, you forced war, when it was avoidable, you did NOTHING to avoid war. But of course I take into account theunpopularity of such wars, but you can check war's relatively normal but low lost of your soldier's lives and frequent victories. War is never low cost, and soldiers lives are the most valuable asset your military has. they are not to be wasted, and wasting them makes your populace even more pissed. You're digging yourself into a deeper hole, bud. Its when your people think the war is a quagmire that it becomes a problem. No, its when they think their gov't is going to war for no reason, their gov't doesn't value soldiers lives, their gov't doesn't value anyones lives, their gov't doesn't value their economy that you get problems. you're godmoding your citizens opinions, and its completely ludicrous. The only war I've lost soldiersUnless you lose soldiers in battle, you aren't warring, your just being a dick. missiling from far away does not constitute war, that constitutes an unreasonable act of aggression that if you weren't so opposed to feedback, the international community would have nipped in the bud way earlier. in in the war with Kamo and I anticipated it would not be hugely popular. Other wars, other nations have been supplying the troops. I've only scourged the air with my planes. So you're wasting the lives of your soldiers and those of other nations. fantastic, in the real world you'd have been thrown out of office,t here'd have been a citizen revolt, and the impoverished masses would've marched for bread, and the military would have helped to kick your regime out. Minimal effect on the civilian populace Minimal physical effect, but they read the news, the psychological effect is unignorable, nothing has changed in their lives (literally) and quick easy wars.No war is quick and easy. "War is sweet to those who have never experienced it" Thats Erasmus, a dutch humanist. You're treating war like its a game, when if we're being realistic, your populace would be traumatized and stirred to rebellion if you were a real nation. You are godmoding the thoughts and feelings of your people, which you cannot do. you're ignoring the human element, treating people like numbers, military engagements like comparison of probabilities. The characters you create to fill your nation have thoughts and feelings, and you CAN NOT IGNORE THEM. you cannot control them. you have to assume that they would act like "most people" give or take a few MINOR variations based on the culture you develop. Please do not take this the wrong way, i am trying to be constructive but your blatant godmodes need to stop. Frankly, its that which has put me off of RP recently, and i'm trying to help so that it can be fixed, and the quality of RP can improve. |
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| Nuuk | Jan 14 2010, 12:24 PM Post #25 |
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I'm trying to be nice about this, but there no way I can say what I need to say without you thinking I'm looking down on you. So screw being nice about it. 1) You misunderstand; I meant my opinion of Pacifist has little to do with what we are talking about. Vietnam and Iraq dragged on for very, very different reason; none of which apply to my situation. No Koslov soldier other than airforce members has engaged anyone in the Cartic, yet. 2) There have been examples before of what happens; it's not the first time the KU has gone to war. I don't need to make a rendition; war is the example. Dropping a nuclear bomb is already an act of war EA not to mention the culture of Japan and the circumstances surrounding Japan in both World Wars are very much different from any other nation in the world currently. The only ones that come close are the suicide bomber organizations, and not because they're suicide bombers. 3) I disagree with you right there. We've been over this and we obviously wouldn't agree with each other so I'll refrain from this discussion. I don't nuke, I bomb. That is all. There is no land invasion, your air space is just controlled by me. Did you read, its not a diplomat, its a Foreign Ambassador to a REGION. Ambassadors are not just any diplomat, they are the HIGHEST RANKING DIPLOMAT which represent the nation granted by the specific authority of the nation and the leader of said nation. 4) I read your post. If military bases and supply depots count as "civilians" then you're right about Koponia, EA. But they're not. You clearly have not been following the RP. 5) It's not BS. He expanded his size by three times in one day. That's totally normal and fine isn't it EA? I didn't tell him to stop breathing; I told Kamo to give up Dryiiad and give it independence from other nations; ie he frees the plots they remain independent. He had the lands for ONE DAY. They DIDN'T happen in the last three months. Its been four RP years between the war with Kamo and the others. and the other's don't demand much energy; I am just the leader of the Allied Forces, doing very little fighting myself. For the rest, I've exhausted arguing with you. You refuse to be convinced, so there is nothing more to be said about that. 5) Warning is a valid for Casus Belli. My demands have never been unreasonable. I told Kamo to let the lands he JUST acquired be free and on their own. For LUN I just told him not to go to war with the HCC and resolve it peacefully. For Koponia, well there's nothing there. He just mass-slaughtered everyone in the conference room. You fail to see the only wear I've lost soldier's lives in the war with Kamo. My others wars have been conducted completely through the Airforce and with no losses. Nothing has changed to the economy it remains untouched. The economy will not be destroyed. Seriously, go study economics, as you obviously fail to understand why a war would destroy an economy. Its not a de-facto, its war so the economy must die. There are certain conditions which must be fulfilled before a war started to negatively impact an economy. 6) You fail to understand what is meant by "quick and easy". Not that they are really quick and easy, just than compared to other wars they are minuscule. How would the populace be traumatized; there is literally nothing changing about the citizen's lives. No soldiers are drafted, no soldiers are dying, just reports of victory after victory. There is no leverage of tax, there is no government takeover of private industries. War exhaustion takes effect because of certain conditions, none of which has been initiated by my recent wars. The war with Kamo is the ONLY war there will be major opposition against. You accusations of my Godmoding is quite funny as I have committed nothing of the sort. Rather you are trying to convict me on nothing. Bravo. You really deserve some praise. |
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| The Glorious Empire | Jan 14 2010, 12:42 PM Post #26 |
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The Helghan Empire
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Nuuk, EA is right. You gotta calm down here, I've been reading your arguments and you really do talk down to people whether you mean to or not. As long as your troops are in danger, the pacifist Element will be active, and someone who goes on such frequent police actions as you do is bound to have a rather large "Leave the world alone" movement growing Yes we all agree Kopo did something wrong, he cant go around slaughtering diplomats without some type of punishment, though a bombing campaign would be more then sufficient, along with some type of Economic action. A Fullscale invasion with an occupation afterward is a bit much for such an incident. I really dont know anything about the war in Kamo so i cant comment on it. Next Point The Point I think EA is trying to make here, is that your bullying nations by interfering in things that you honestly have little reason to. the War with Kamo I understand since he is right around your homeland. But your inference in the Cartic has no basis whatsoever. and your people are going to start to notice that, so you Pacifist movement has to be growing at an exponential rate And saying you've fought 2 wars and not lost a single aircraft is a blatant godmod, the US Lost aircraft during the Gulf War (Which was one of the most one sided war in history), so you cannot say your Airforce is so all powerful and almighty that it never ever suffered losses of any kind, THAT is without question a Godmod in the purest sense Since you must have lost at least a few aircraft their are body bags coming home, and honestly as long as you have soldiers in harms way, members of your country are gong to be traumatized. Again, Saying otherwise is a complete and Utter Godmod Your country has fought 3 Wars in a little under an RP decade, your people are war weary no matter what you say. Saying anything else is a Godmod |
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| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 12:42 PM Post #27 |
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Same Schtick I'm trying to be nice about this, but there no way I can say what I need to say without you thinking I'm looking down on you. So screw being nice about it. 1) You misunderstand; I meant my opinion of Pacifist has little to do with what we are talking about. Vietnam and Iraq dragged on for very, very different reason; none of which apply to my situation. No Koslov soldier other than airforce members has engaged anyone in the Cartic, yet. Airforce are not impenetrable, Aerial losses are inevitable, you are clearly godmoding an invincible airforce or something. Did you ever even RP transporting all your forces over to that area? I mean, your RP consists of flailing about and hitting people in the face, i haven't seen you ONCE say "hey guys, im moving x number of troops to x place it will take y long and cost $z. 2) There have been examples before of what happens; it's not the first time the KU has gone to war. I don't need to make a rendition; war is the example. Dropping a nuclear bomb is already an act of war EA not to mention the culture of Japan and the circumstances surrounding Japan in both World Wars are very much different from any other nation in the world currently. Dropping the bomb ENDED the war. Do you think, after getting nuked, they redoubled their efforts to destroy us? No, they surrendered. Its possible. You just have never tried. The only ones that come close are the suicide bomber organizations, and not because they're suicide bombers. 3) I disagree with you right there. We've been over this and we obviously wouldn't agree with each other so I'll refrain from this discussion. I don't nuke, I bomb. That is all.Its a figure of speech There is no land invasion, your air space is just controlled by me. Did you read, its not a diplomat, its a Foreign Ambassador to a REGION. Ambassadors are not just any diplomat, they are the HIGHEST RANKING DIPLOMATWhats the difference between "Diplomat" and "Highest ranking diplomat"? my point is still valid, no matter what the rank is. which represent the nation granted by the specific authority of the nation and the leader of said nation. 4) I read your post. If military bases and supply depots count as "civilians" then you're right about Koponia, EA. But they're not. You clearly have not been following the RP. You're right, i haven't. Your Godmode turned me off of RP and i'm so far not inclined to return any time soon. 5) It's not BS. He expanded his size by three times in one day. That's totally normal and fine isn't it EA? I didn't tell him to stop breathing; I told Kamo to give up Dryiiad and give it independence from other nations; ie he frees the plots they remain independent. He had the lands for ONE DAY. They DIDN'T happen in the last three months. Its been four RP years between the war with Kamo and the others. and the other's don't demand much energy; I am just the leader of the Allied Forces, doing very little fighting myself. Alright nuuk, i demand you relinquish all your land claims. If you say no, we're going to war. And also, that means my points still stand about your populace being disgusted with your government for your irreverence for human life. 5) Warning is a valid for Casus Belli. No, its not. Imagine I demand you relinquish your land claims. If you don't, i'll bomb your ass. Unreasonable demands met with civil disobedience is what you're getting. Warning is tantamount to the stereotypical "stop hitting yourself" shindig of the playgrounds of old. My demands have never been unreasonable. I told Kamo to let the lands he JUST acquired be free and on their own.Turn this scenario around on yourself, and ask yourself how you would react. I demand you relinquish your land claims, nuuk. you've gotten pretty huge. Better give 'em independence! Bullshit. thats a completely unreasonable demand. For LUN I just told him not to go to war with the HCC and resolve it peacefully. For Koponia, well there's nothing there. He just mass-slaughtered everyone in the conference room. You fail to see the only wear I've lost soldier's lives in the war with Kamo. My others wars have been conducted completely through the Airforce and with no losses. Impossible. Thats godmode in and of itself. "Don't worry guys, its airforce. no risk, you'll all survive." Nothing has changed to the economy it remains untouched. The economy will not be destroyed.Any deployment of forces affects the economy. you are wrong. Seriously, go study economics, as you obviously fail to understand why a war would destroy an economy.What did i tell you about talking down to me about this stuff? Its not a de-facto, its war so the economy must die. There are certain conditions which must be fulfilled before a war started to negatively impact an economy.Such as deploying troops for a long-ass time. Its ok, i understand. You're godmoding your economy. 6) You fail to understand what is meant by "quick and easy". Not that they are really quick and easy, just than compared to other wars they are minuscule. How would the populace be traumatized; there is literally nothing changing about the citizen's lives.Thats not the important part. Soldiers ARE citizens, they are people who would otherwise have jobs but are instead fighting. They are related to other citizens, and you are behaving like they are game pieces that you have stacked up and can fritter away. Soldiers are not different from citizens, soldiers deaths affects the populace significantly, and unless you are controlling news from the front, citizens would know about all this stuff. You're godmoding every aspect of your nation. No soldiers are drafted, War exhaustion takes effect because of certain conditions,Thank you for enlightening me on those conditions. Unitl you do, i'm going to maintain that the condition of DEPLOYMENT OF FORCES FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OF TIME does indeed cost you money, and will indeed affect you. none of which has been initiated by my recent wars. The war with Kamo is the ONLY war there will be major opposition against. You accusations of my Godmoding is quite funny as I have committed nothing of the sort.Prove me wrong, then Rather you are trying to convict me on nothing. Bravo. You really deserve some praise. I appreciate sarcasm usually, but you need some substantial evidence to prove my claims wrong, and sarcasm isn't really appropriate for this kind of thing. Just so you know. |
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| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 12:44 PM Post #28 |
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Amen, TGE. |
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| Nuuk | Jan 14 2010, 12:58 PM Post #29 |
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I am calm. I had a post but seeing as we won't agree with each other, there's no point in dragging this out longer. I propose we agree to disagree. |
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| Epsilon Andromedae | Jan 14 2010, 01:26 PM Post #30 |
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lol but thats saying "i'm going to continue to Godmode no matter what you say" The point is, we need you to STOP. and you're not the only one, don't think this is all about you. there are others. I was hoping you'd help lead the charge against Godmode, since alot of members look up to you, as one of the more active members in RP, but unfortunately you're setting a bad example. i was just trying to correct it is all. |
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