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To Those Who Believe In a Free Market
Topic Started: Jul 16 2009, 09:55 AM (343 Views)
Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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How do you reconcile your beliefs about the free market with those about controlling recreational drug use?

This obviously doesn't apply to those who believe in both the free market and decriminalisation of drugs :P
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Sopo
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Blargh.
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Lucavan Emirates
Jul 15 2009, 05:55 PM
This obviously doesn't apply to those who believe in both the free market and decriminalisation of drugs :P

Phew. *wipes brow*
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Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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I'm so glad you escaped the trap of conservatism, Sopo! :P haha
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Epsilon Andromedae
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I disagree with it, but i'm not vehemently opposed to legalizing it. if you legalize it, you can tax it to death.

but i really don't care either way. it doesn't affect me, except if its legalized i can pay slightly less taxes.
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Magilan
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Quote:
 
How do you reconcile your beliefs about the free market with those about controlling recreational drug use?


Simple.

Becuse the "recreational" use taxes healthcare, welfare, and police, and Im unwilling to pay for somones habbit. So its simply a matter of cost-effect to me.

And ofcourse its the danger that the legalistation whoud hamper the development and traninig of the future workfoce, and that whoud hamper the GDP and national security, and Im not willing to let those two go, just becuse somone wants to have a wiff of weed or a shot of coke to make theyr evnin more "happy". If you`r that freaked for a fix, join the army, get sent to a warzone, and get shot at, thats a goverment paid for, adrenalin kick you will never forget.
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Epsilon Andromedae
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no, you legalize drugs, you also let employers do random drug screening,and you make it so that any social welfare program has random drug tests so that if you're positive, you're kicked out.

employers don't have to hire people they don't like, it would make it easier for those of us who don't to get jobs
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Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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@EA: I don't think that view is ethical EA; surely whatever happens in your personal life, providing that it does not affect your work performance, cannot be taken into consideration when hiring/firing? 'else we would return to the days when you could fire someone for being black or for being Jewish...



@Magilan: recreational use would not drain the police budget by NEARLY as much if they were legalised - you wouldn't need to catch the drug dealers, for a start!

The drain on the healthcare system would be minuscule in relation to the amount of tax we'd get from drugs. My example is alcoholic, which costs £2.7 bn to the NHS, while it brings in £13 bn by excise duty alone, and roughly £10 bn in VAT. Such systems could easily be expanded to deal with currently-illegal drugs, many of which are much less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes (LSD and Magic Mushrooms are near-harmless drugs, while Cannabis has no physical dangers and would cause very little harm to others... given the general "chilled" feeling it comes with).

Right, welfare... surely an environment where drugs can be controlled is more effective at treating addicts than one where you must go to criminals to get your fix? Criminals are already breaking the law and are under no obligation to stop serving you, unlike licensed premises which are not allowed to serve to customers who are at a danger to themselves? If you were talking about any other kind of social welfare dangers, please elaborate :)
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Epsilon Andromedae
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who cares if its ethical or not? Business is about business. I'm sure a stoner could make a case for themselves in the interview or something, but if they walk in looking like crap, smelling of pot, and fail a drug test, then an employer is by no means obligated to hire them.

Of course, an employer is by no means obligated to hire them for any reason, excepting CLEARLY discriminatory ones. But if a stoner is perfectly qualified and isn't affected, then an employer will like their professionalism.
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Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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Walking in to an interview looking crap and smelling like pot is a bit different... turning up to an interview under the effects of drugs is unlikely to endear yourself to anyone.

The difference in asserting that failing a cannabis drug test should get you fired is that you can fail a cannabis drug test if you smoked last three weeks ago.

Firing someone because they smoke weed in their own time is discriminatory.

Oh, and:

Quote:
 
who cares if its ethical or not? Business is about business


That's exactly why we need regulation... because no-one in business cares about ethics we are walking into an environmental catastrophe and countless have died for easily-preventable reasons.
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Magilan
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You whoud not need to catch the drug dealers, but you`d need to deal with a massive increase in house calls, disorderly behavior, ect.

And healthcare costs? If more use, more problems, the more use, the less they produce, the less they produce, the less cash is in the system, regardless of tax.
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Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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Hmm, I think that you (not necessarily you, but someone in your camp) needs to produce some experimental evidence which shows that to be the case before it is used in arguments.
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Magilan
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I coud point to the various police statistics that show high crime in areas where duguse is commonplace, or to statistics that show that most drug users are not all that productive.
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Lucavan Emirates
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Uraartu: ready to take the world by storm...
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Quote:
 
I coud point to the various police statistics that show high crime in areas where duguse is commonplace


Hardly surprising when the act of drug use/selling is a criminal offence... we'd need statistics from an environment where drugs are legalised, hence why I referred to alcohol. Using statistics gathered while drugs are illegal doesn't stand up in rational enquiry.

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or to statistics that show that most drug users are not all that productive


Again, find me some from a place where drugs are legalised and compare with where they are legalised.

On a different note, should we be forcing our citizens to be productive? In that case the free market needs to be outlawed quickly... Stalinism Ho!
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Vanet
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Nation-State
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Well, I'm a Socialist, but I believe in Legalizing a lot of illegal things... Drugs being one of them, along with prostitution. I believe it would be more productive (and more lawful) to allow them and regulate them then to believe that we can ever rid the world of them.
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Kamoneschia
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Corporate Bordello
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Why have a free market yet impose so many restrictions on the lifestyle of people? I think legalizing drugs is perfectly legit. If drugs make people happy, (which they do,) then might as well legalize them. I don't see why some people need to control how others live their lives. I wouldn't personally use drugs, but I don't believe that my personal beliefs should decide what others deserve...
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