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Caprecia

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The Third Great War; Or, Caprecia's/Oracia's WWII
Topic Started: Jan 21 2014, 03:12 PM (1,318 Views)
Lines
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Yeah...word on the street is, you guys want Oracia/Caprecia to be more like Earth, in that there's such a thing as international law and a freaken world court and humans right, and all that fun progressive humanitarian junk. I'm not particularly opposed to it--as it might come across based on some movements elsewhere--but I would like for it to happen realistically.

See, it took WWII to get RL nation-states to get their shit straight and stop being so...not-cooperative-y. This is why I'm opposed to randomly spawning things like an international court or a UN-esque: because it looks like you guys want to do it to do it (and maybe grab some prestige on the side), rather than doing it for RP...or as a consequence of RP.

That's one of the things I've been waiting on: a Nazi Germany to come around and be a big enough bad boy it changes the political spectrum and make us go "you know, it's not so bad an idea to have a greater organization to prevent this shit."

Believe it or not, I tried to do it early in Caprecia 2.0 with the East Urocan War (LAN+SAI v. modern MKE, back when it was Eridor). Thing is, Erid vanished on us--leaving the thing a flop and we just kind of skipped forward a little. The attempts to start a UN-esque failed, so I kind of just shoved King Erick IV trying to massacre Eridor civilians under the carpet.

But now there's grumbling again for a world court, and Ikarius did that Nysan anti-genocide organization thing, but...stuff and things. (Super sekreet: I may or may not have intended to slide the Commonwealth into a UN-esque role.))

So I'm thinking of just flipping the table, picking up some NPCs, and going Hitler on your asses. Why an NPC rather than Lanlania? Because WHYARENTYOUHITLERING,GODDAMMIT?

Exactly. Lines fixes tie.

So, yeah...who(mainly Caprecians)'s interested in a WWII-esque thing that spawns a UN-ripoff and all that fun humanitarian junk? Originally, I was considering having it set in the past--250s, but figure that doing it now is better, so we don't have the awkwardness of conflicting shizz.

It'd likely be centered in Zaroca, with our big bad being Magilan (I may beef it up for the purposes of this RP, including granting it some more land).

An aggressive right-winger could get elected into office (because reasons), who then proceeds to invade things. Maybe democratic Tyras or Nent's weird Asian state? Or NPCs--actually, why not all of the above? This country could have an ally in Estovza, and possibly also an Iryiiad state, just for the extra RP. Most RP would come from beating the Magilani (and its allies!) into the dirt. I may add or remove parties (victims in Galdresia and Syntreal, particularly) depending on interest. I'd like for it to include most of Caprecia's parties, because otherwise it's kinda pointless.

What's liable to be the aftermath?

I'll likely oppose--both ICly and OOCly--land concessions because ITSNOTALLABOUTTHEFRAKKINGLANDGODDAMMIT. Considering the point is to spawn a UN and world court and that kinda stuff, those would also come about. I'll probably headquarter them in NPCs (Syntara City and Nakhodka respectively, I'm thinking), because GODDAMMITITSNOTALLABOUTONESOWNCOUNTRY. Oh, and I guess there'd be debt. That's kind of a side effort of war.

Lines, this is a horrible idea!
Expand on why and maybe we can fix it.

Lines, this interferes in my nation's agenda!
Well, that's how the world works. It doesn't wait for you to put your pants on.

Lines, I don't want to RP for this! Why can't we just have the organization!
Because it should have a catalyst, goddammit.

Lines! You're dumb and I hate you!
Whatever.

Lines! ...wait, what are you asking us here, exactly?
"What's your take on actually having a RP to spawn a UN and shizz, as opposed to just doing it because?"

Oh...okay. Wait, how's Nysa fit into this?
Donno.

Oh...okay. How's the DU fit into this?
Might be a party to the war, though I think the Commonwealth might be some of the first responders.

Oh...okay. And the TA?
They might try to weasel their way, I guess. Donno either. We'll have to see in RP.
Edited by Lines, Jan 21 2014, 03:14 PM.
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Lines
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Flo
Jan 22 2014, 10:43 AM
Ehhhh idk if we'll be joining... But I'm sure the others would be interested in at least considering the idea :)
Lines writes Flo's name on an execution order sheet. e.e

URE
Jan 22 2014, 03:27 PM
Well I wouldn't my ass kicked with the USR, I've had plans for awhile of making lelouch go fascist and have massive secret military buildup in the republic, and I'm in the perfect region I believe.
Uh...huh. As I told you on the chat, you can fascist it up and be a Magilani ally.

Raz
Jan 22 2014, 07:13 PM
As I've stated before, doing this to acquire a UN-like body is a dumb idea, a UN-like body is a dumb idea too as it would restrict expansions beyond even Ministry mandated restrictions. If this happens, Telvan will likely throw in with the CoN, but this is not a smart idea....
Actually, controlling expansions isn't too bad an idea. Some of our members are too expansion-happy, at times with flimsy reasoning--at best. /However/, this thing would only have the authority and power we give it. I'm sure we could find a way to cripple it while still serving our greater agenda: shutting people up having a purty saving the world from mass murder.

Kingborough
Jan 23 2014, 03:24 AM
*says a big fat no* Nysa's not getting involved in this if I have anything to do about it. Caprecia might need this type of thing, but Nysa's already had plenty of genocide and war to inspire us to want to build these things.

Exhibition A:

Kalonian Genocide
Ikarius Reich + Genocide
Thalamore Reich 1 & 2 + Genocide
Canariese Genocide + Crazy Kingboroughian Oligarchy
Genocide and Oppression in former Carpathian theocracy
Tons of liberal religions
That's nice, dear. Lines didn't intend to expand this to Nysa in the first place.

Hadash
Jan 23 2014, 03:31 AM
What about, instead a world war provoked by a superpower, a huge genocide by a small or not-so-big-superpower, as the RP that lead to the creation of International Courts and UN-like organizations? Imagine one of the scale of Pol Pot's genocide (25% of the population) and even televised, that would cause that all nations to act and avoid such thing ever happen again, and it will only affect one or two nations.
The issue with this is that if other nations aren't affected, they won't give a single fuck. That's the issue with the Nysan ones: they don't affect Caprecia /at all/, so why should we care enough to form/join an anti-genocide organization? RL's shown a few times that unless an event has a direct effect on a nation, said nation (and others!) won't lift a finger.

Hadash
Jan 23 2014, 04:04 AM
Kingborough
Jan 23 2014, 03:40 AM
*sends Hadash a link to Ikariun genocide* 25 million dead ....
It happened in the past, we haven't such bodies today...and it wouldn't be realistic retconned them. So let's say a second (or third or fourth...the key word is a present one) is the one that lead people decide it.

If people like the idea of a world or regional war in itself, they can do it, of course, but I'm not sure if that means a real difference. I think this idea of a genocide instead of a bigger war have some adventages such as:

  • It wouldn't last too much years as a world/regional war with a superpower will do, so it would not paralyzed during some years the RP of the most affected nations, as it is likely it could happen.
  • The genocide could involve only NPC nations, so it wouldn't affect directly too much Player Nations (just the quick invasion and occupation, if any).
  • Being the motive for international organizations the genocide as such and not the war that comes, all nations are likely to be involved in a similar way, instead of the World War Scenario, which will have quite active nations with many neutral ones.
  • It's even more unlikely that it could be used to push some agenda, as a World or Regional could (or -from a IC point of view- some nations could perceive as such).
Again, I don't think a minor regional war would have the impact we're looking for. If Nazi Germany had just silently done it's deeds, would the world really have gone in to save 'em? Or formed an organization to attempt to prevent similar? I doubt it. Lines glances at Africa, where interventions have been offhand at best.

I mean...if I RPed a genocide in Magilan as it is now, what would the Jintikian Republic do? Condemn it? Call for a blockade? Call for a military intervention?

Even if it went to that last one, the entire fiasco would only really prove that invasions are a legit way to stop a genocide. I can't say I see much reason for it to lead to an organization.

Lomarre
Jan 23 2014, 06:48 AM
World looks mildly different eh? Soviet's got some new puppets and Germany was in a massive amount of debt.
I don't wanna be a fun killer for pointing this out either, but whoever occupies land may want to keep it. It'll also basically crush the economy of the losers for at least 20 years, even with help from allies. Expect to focus more on domestic issues like riots and minor lawlessness. Inflation? Look at Germany in 1927. A backpack full of money got you half a slice of bread.

So...the authoritarian, communist Soviet Union got some puppets, while the free world (read: what the majority of us play us) got a little money drain, before having some nice, stable allies? All this says is "if you're a big bad boy, you get puppets; if you're democratic and otherwise a good guy, you're not really interested in the land to start with."
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Flo
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Shrek is Love. Shrek is Life.
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lines
 
Some of our members are too expansion-happy, at times with flimsy reasoning


Yeah maybe that is a good idea... *looks guilty* :P
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Jamzor the Jaxxor
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I might be up for something like this, that is as long as the new international organization doesn't mettle too much, ya know? I don't want every one of my expansions to be the UN interfering and being "lolno".
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Hadash
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Jamzor the Jaxxor
Jan 23 2014, 10:40 AM
I might be up for something like this, that is as long as the new international organization doesn't mettle too much, ya know? I don't want every one of my expansions to be the UN interfering and being "lolno".
That would always depend on the will of the majority of the members of this UN-like organization (and the proper rules of the own organization, of course). But I suppose they could do it in the same way that now anyone is "free" to interfere in any of our expansions and kick you in your/our ass. I understand it's not likey (because they would be a war every two RP months) but it could happen.
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Lomarre
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The thing is, Jamm, that if a security council of powerful nations is made, they'll butt in at any time. I'm afraid people will just take advantage of the organization like nations do in the UN do.
Edited by Lomarre, Jan 23 2014, 12:19 PM.
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Lines
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Aaaayyyeee. The organization would only have the powers and authorities we give to it. I'm sure we could find a way to cripple it--say, needing more than 66% (of people who actually bother to vote, likely) for resolutions to pass, and even then resolutions being optional. At that stage, you'd need to REALLY be a bad boy; I don't think the world would be particularly eager to condemn and or invade you if you've some legitimacy.

There's also that. With this organization over our shoulder, we'd need to get more creative with our casus bellis. No long will "IwantitIwantitIwantitIwantit" be enough; now you'll need to either a) make it such a quagmire or controversial that the organization can't really get involved or b) uh...that's about it? I was gonna say RP to develop the backstory, but that kinda fits under a. Examples of these are kind of already out there: Angelic-Wraith invasion of East Anjas (over the assassination of the AWE heir), Tyrian invasion of Estovakia (over Estovakia harboring Tyrian war criminals), and the Molywhateverian invasion of That-one-place (IDEKWGO!).

I'll admit there's a chance that the organization would object to annexations, but...we could just not give it that power. :)

How? Not sure. Maybe limits its plausible resolutions to things revolving around organized mass murder. >_>
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Cameron
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Kingborough
Jan 23 2014, 03:40 AM
*sends Hadash a link to Ikariun genocide* 25 million dead ....
23,000,000 died in the Kalonian Genocide, not to mention the Great Disparosa of 15,000,000 Nekki and Darcsen genocides. Either way, Nysa has had too much Genocide, though I think it should be up to individual player-states if they want to send armies over to Caprecia to help the cause.
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Jamzor the Jaxxor
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Med and I will be considering joining. We'll see how it goes.
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Falsea
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Hmm, I think Scarlet Moon will see itself on the side of the Axis. But considering this war happens right now, as in now, then no it will be all neutral and isolationist. If this happens in a few years or something and Sainam does mean things to the rump state (which I assume) and it manages to expand a bit, it might throw its lot into a rejuvenated IA once more. For the fun of it.

For Ritterschild, it could suffer a low country scenario and get bombarded or something, a victim. Or we could be Spain before the world war, engulfed in a civil war and all that then being helped out by other people, then being pro-Axis but not actually involved.

If Myeongju is invaded, count Falsea to be part of this war too. Moreso, if the USE or Jintikia, which I assume will be invaded, are invaded, then the TA will be part of this war and we'll really have a world war in our hands. Although more..messy.
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President Caeser
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The Existent yet Absent
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I dont think that the organization should restrict annexations at all, but instead monitor them ensuring there arent any war crimes committed.
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Hadash
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I think that the organization should do what the majority of its members decide to do (with some reasonable and realistic limits). If people really like the idea of such world organization they should accept their (potential) pros and cons.
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Zanaro
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Triarchic Republic
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Is this still happening?
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Flo
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Shrek is Love. Shrek is Life.
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Only if we (read: people) want it to :)
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Blacaria
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RP Minister, does plenty, has horrible pay.
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MMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHH
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Raz
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Titans falling, Sons rising?
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I'm with Blac here, massive MEH
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