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The International Court of Oracia
Topic Started: Jan 20 2014, 10:09 PM (264 Views)
Kingborough
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The Monarchist
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Greetings :)

Thanks to the inspired mutterings of Lines that I've taken and utterly twisted out of context gently edited, I am here today to present to you the International Court of Oracia :) Your friendly neighbourhood world government IGO.

Anyway, to get down to serious biz, I am proposing a world court on human rights. Scary stuff right?

This would serve to prosecute people for genocide and related mass murder, and act as a mediator in international disputes. No sovereignty stealing I promise.

It will have two HQ's, a Caprecian one in Badenburg, Deltoria and a Nysan one in Isonia, the Arrese Imperium.

Who would be on board with this?

Known Signatories:
Arrese Imperium
Deltoria
Jandrea
Sylvar
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Osafune
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Large State
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*Osafune waves his hands frantically* I'd be down for this, since in my rp with Lines there are such dealings with matters which OOCly would be war crimes and all and me considering trying some war criminals in an international court.
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Lomarre
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High-Kingdom of Lomarre
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Sure. <.<

But this better not spiral out of control with sentient rights in Nysa. >.>
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Oertha
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Ultra Power
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Question: is this being done IC or OOC? Defining "human sentient rights" and figuring out how the court's judgements can actually be enforced, that is.
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Mestra
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Regional Power
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I honestly don't know If I would support such a thing. Let me explain why. this Court would have no power to enforce its rulings, and any actions attempted by the court or by its members would be met with resistance from Alliances, allies etc. Of course you might argue that nobody would stand for genocide or other such crimes of varying severity, but why then would another nation ally themselves with another. I won't say I'd join or completely oppose this without a structure designed before everyone hopes on the bandwagon.
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Osafune
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Large State
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Oertha
Jan 21 2014, 01:08 AM
Question: is this being done IC or OOC? Defining "human sentient rights" and figuring out how the court's judgements can actually be enforced, that is.
Actually, if this thing did anything with "sentient" rights I probably wouldn't bother with it. Mainly because having multiple sentient species running about seems too much like a fantasy genre of rp to me, and that's not really the sort of rp I want to be involved with if I can avoid it. <_<
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Kingborough
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The Monarchist
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@Lomarre - It won't. It'd mostly be for trying war criminals and such, as 'proof' they are guilty and not just the opposing side making things up.

@Oertha - I'd honestly write a charter OOC and /maybe/ just have a RP with people signing it. IC rps to draw up charters tend to die quickly.

@Mestra - It'd probably not judge governments that much, just disposed people that members want proof they are evil and so on. It might try particularly bad nations in absenta which would then give a casus belli for member states to go intervening ... honestly we ignore our domestic reactions to war a lot, something I'd like to see brought into things more, and this court would also act partially as a way to placate domestic parties as 'proof' that a war or something was justified. Of course, certain nations won't like it or abide by it but that's the same with all international orgs RL.

@Osafune - By being in Oracia, you have to deal with it. Just to give you one of many reasons why, the largest player state is mostly non-humans. And on your side Zanaro has cat people in one of his nations as well I believe. Hell, Lynis used to have a President whose boyfriend had cat ears, pre-nuclear war :P

EDIT: You do realise we're on an alien planet colonised by earth? Right? We're already beyond normal MT rp, and in a good way I think, because we actually deal with why there's humans running around on another planet with different geography and not conveniently ignoring it's not earth so they shouldn't be there.
Edited by Kingborough, Jan 21 2014, 04:23 AM.
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Zanaro
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Triarchic Republic
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So'Karsa might actually not sign up for this. The idea of an international organization that acts as a court would be concerning to them. After all we already have a court system and we would definitely try war criminals ourselves.
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Jamzor the Jaxxor
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There's nothing a drone strike won't fix.
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I am not sure of this either. Besides, giving the nonhumans RIGHTS? What a ridiculous notion!
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Anakinexi
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The Villain
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The idea of such a court would be appealing to the United States, but let's see how this develops before making a final answer.
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Oertha
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Ultra Power
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My only problems with an ICJ are:

1) That its rulings are meaningless if there is no body to enforce them. The reason why the ICJ works on Earth is that you have large multinational alliances and organizations (as in, the 190-something member UN) that have power and will to eventually enforce the will of the ICJ. Oracia doesn't have anything like that. Placing this in as part of a greater UN WA framework is fine, but there needs to be a body that will go and point to the offending party and be all, "Hey, you, knock it off or we all come at you."

Which brings another issue...

2) How is this enforceable on parties that haven't agreed to the provisions? Sure, mob rule is a way, where everyone in the above organization just descends upon the offending party (who did not sign the declaration and is thus legally not party to it) like a sack of bricks...but then why even have the court/organization in the first place, when that can be done by anyone at any time anyway? Heck, unprovoked Nysan mob rule has basically kept the region fascist-free, so why would you need a court to give you justification for doing what you're already basically doing?

3) How will this court basically not devolve into moral areas? Sure, basically banning genocide and things is nice, because no one wants to be invaded by genocidal maniacs, and no one wants said maniacs on their borders, forcing destitute refugees into their lands...but where EXACTLY is the line between "objectively bad, don't do" and "we think this is bad stuff, so we don't want you to do it?"

Because if we're going to mimic and enforce crock that is basically the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights," you can quite easily count me out.

Basically.
Edited by Oertha, Jan 21 2014, 04:47 AM.
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Osafune
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Large State
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Quote:
 
@Osafune - By being in Oracia, you have to deal with it. Just to give you one of many reasons why, the largest player state is mostly non-humans. And on your side Zanaro has cat people in one of his nations as well I believe. Hell, Lynis used to have a President whose boyfriend had cat ears, pre-nuclear war :P

EDIT: You do realise we're on an alien planet colonised by earth? Right? We're already beyond normal MT rp, and in a good way I think, because we actually deal with why there's humans running around on another planet with different geography and not conveniently ignoring it's not earth so they shouldn't be there.


Lol I'm aware of that, it's just that its the only thing that I really don't like about it here. So, I'd like cover my ears and close my eyes and go "LALALALALALALA" until I'm in some way forced to deal with that fact.
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President Caeser
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The Existent yet Absent
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And also, how far is this organization going to go when combatting genocide? Embargoes? Landing troops? Full out war? Or is it going to mostly depend on the situation?
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Kingborough
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The Monarchist
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Zanaro
 
So'Karsa might actually not sign up for this. The idea of an international organization that acts as a court would be concerning to them. After all we already have a court system and we would definitely try war criminals ourselves.

The whole point of such a court is to act as an 'independent' judicial authority, because national bodies can easily be accused of corruption etc.

Quote:
 
My only problems with an ICJ are:

1) That its rulings are meaningless if there is no body to enforce them. The reason why the ICJ works on Earth is that you have large multinational alliances and organizations (as in, the 190-something member UN) that have power and will to eventually enforce the will of the ICJ. Oracia doesn't have anything like that. Placing this in as part of a greater UN WA framework is fine, but there needs to be a body that will go and point to the offending party and be all, "Hey, you, knock it off or we all come at you."


The whole point of the court would be to create an organisation that can self enforce on the power of its members.

Quote:
 
Which brings another issue...

2) How is this enforceable on parties that haven't agreed to the provisions? Sure, mob rule is a way, where everyone in the above organization just descends upon the offending party (who did not sign the declaration and is thus legally not party to it) like a sack of bricks...but then why even have the court/organization in the first place, when that can be done by anyone at any time anyway? Heck, unprovoked Nysan mob rule has basically kept the region fascist-free, so why would you need a court to give you justification for doing what you're already basically doing?


Most international organisation work this way, exactly. The UN isn't every nation; and the world court doesn't even have the USA as a member if I remember correctly. The whole point of such organisation is to create a force that can enforce by dropping a sack of bricks.

And as to why we'd have it? To legitimise such sack dropping. Both in IC and OOC views; honestly, the domestic inhabitants of nations aren't going to like sack dropping if their is no 'neutral proof' so to speak, hence why a legitimising international body would be useful. The same applies to other nations near you, and political groups and whoever else you need to please with 'justification'. Also a world court would help along the RP Minister validating casus bellis because if your invading for genocide or whatever, and the court supports you, then they have a valid IC reason for what is in other conditions a frowned upon casus belli if used with no IC backing.

Quote:
 
3) How will this court basically not devolve into moral areas? Sure, basically banning genocide and things is nice, because no one wants to be invaded by genocidal maniacs, and no one wants said maniacs on their borders, forcing destitute refugees into their lands...but where EXACTLY is the line between "objectively bad, don't do" and "we think this is bad stuff, so we don't want you to do it?"

Because if we're going to mimic and enforce crock that is basically the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights," you can quite easily count me out.

Basically.


I'd personally restrict it very strictly to just genocide/mass murder, because most Oracian nations violate one or more right in the RL Declaration on a daily basis. Something trying to enforce such an agenda on a voluntarily basis would never get anywhere, so there's no point trying

Caeser
 
And also, how far is this organization going to go when combatting genocide? Embargoes? Landing troops? Full out war? Or is it going to mostly depend on the situation?

The latter; situation would decide how far things were taken.
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Nentsia
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Politically incorrect history student
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Montaria would sign, Batavia would sign, Myeongju would not sign - for quite obvious reasons.
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