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| World Finance Organization - Discussions for the Future; OPEN TO ALL | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 21 2013, 06:22 AM (1,113 Views) | |
| Mestra | Nov 21 2013, 06:22 AM Post #1 |
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Regional Power
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So here is my thought and what I want to work on. In the real world we have organizations such as teh World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank. My goal, plan, and idea is to create an organization in Oracia that would function like all these organizations in one, with each area of focus being operated out of a different program/department if you will. The aims for this organization will be to promote fair trade, provide temporary monetary loans to developing nations, to oversee trade disputes, and to encourage economic growth through out the world through foreign investment and trade. Ideally I would like this organization's headquarters to be in Cias, Mestra as it is a top tier city, centrall located in Syntreal which is a neutral region for the most part (plus I just do :P), the program divisions must be positioned elsewhere where they will serve the most benefit. Likely, a facility would be in one of Nysa's largest and economically stable cities, while another would be in Caprecia in a similiar city. Focus now should be on what this organization will do and how it will operate, decide what it should be called, before we move on to drafting a Charter for it to operate. I believe that this endeavor is vital to promoting cross continent interactions and RP and to provide a base foundation for any future global endeavors and large scale organizations. Edited by Mestra, Nov 21 2013, 06:22 AM.
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| Hadash | Nov 23 2013, 01:54 AM Post #16 |
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World Power
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I'm not sure if you're using the name 'World Bank' a random name or as a mirror of the RL organization, but the World Bank doesn't work like a private bank, it's a similar organization than the IMF, which main declared aim is promote economic globalization and "fighting poverty", being their 'customers' mostly poor and developing countries. They loan money to both Governments and private projects but again, it's not something profit-oriented. If you're still going to this kind of 'Global Public Bank', I'd say your bankers won't be very happy about it, and your national banking system could be damaged, specially if you offer lower interest rates than the global and nationals markets. And I'm not trying to be some kind of spoilsport, but in the issue of contribution to the organization, it seems you're looking for all the benefits of this kind of organization, but without any of their costs, which is not very realistic, I'd say. If you're an important contributor, your influence and power in the international organizations will increase, and through this organization you'll have an important influence in the economic and political system of other countries, their trade policies, and it will improve the interests and profits of your national and private companies, which will have access to new markets. Besides that, you could also use them as a tool in order to assure regional stability and damage rival countries / political systems, which could be interesting on RP level. In summary, you wouldn't be "throwing money to a hole", as it's something that will be beneficial for you. However, I think it's a good idea that, OOCly, Noberia and similar huge NPC states be considered the main financial contributor to this world organization(s). This could be positive because: a) it would reduce the contribution of the player nations, which for unrealistic reasons seem to be an issue here; b) it would allow to the RPMinisters to avoid that those organizations became a tool to hit / damage other players/nations without justification, in cases where there's a lack of IC reasons. So the system would be fairer and easily to manage, I believe. |
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| Nentsia | Nov 23 2013, 01:56 AM Post #17 |
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Politically incorrect history student
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If it would give loans to corporations, then I think it should be available only to financial institutions such as banks that are on the verge of collapse and threaten to drag an entire nation with them. RL examples such as Cyprus, where the banks were bigger than their own government and threatened to collapse, would be a situation in which our world bank could step in and offer a loan. Btw, I also oppose a profit-driven thing. First of all, if its profit driven - why do we need nations to get involved? Why would this commercial bank be any different from other globally operating banks? And if it is run by nations for profit, which of the nations gets the profit? So yeah I agree with Hadash... Edited by Nentsia, Nov 23 2013, 01:59 AM.
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| Mestra | Nov 23 2013, 02:19 AM Post #18 |
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Regional Power
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My original point was for it to partially mirror the RL World Bank and combine parts of the IMF into a single program. Many of us had agreed that this World Bank should be separated from a WTO type thing, and yet others basically wanted a profit or incentive. Apparently some nations seem to be so stuck up and selfish they can't help others without a good cause, thus the profit system was added. However, I would prefer to go back to the original concept rather than this commercialized bank, but of course this organization would still need support. As for a profit, I firmly believe that assisting weaker countries and preventing national governments from collapsing would actually assist our profit driven nations. e.g. If the World Bank is loaning money to a nation, it would make sense that a nation could see this as an opportunity to invest in that nations economy as well, to reap the benefits. As national economies improve, it would be ideal for such nations to begin buying from the global market, thus a WTO would be important to maintain fair trade and prevent abuse. I would propose this then: This World Financial Organization (Need a new name?) has two divisions the World Bank and the WTO. The World Bank maintains a pull of money from various member states, whose national banks send a 'cash' to the WB. The WB loans out this money to nations who need financial assistance because they are developing, bankrupt, a natural disaster, repairing from war, etc. These nations or even banks who threaten the national, regional, or global economies will pay back these loans over time. The interest from these loans will be pooled together, and the money will be distributed to the member states who gave money to the WB in the first place. Thus in time the World Bank will begin paying off its 'debt' until all the money controlled by the Bank is owned by the Bank with its member states receiving their money back. The second division the WTO doesn't act like the RL WTO but rather aims to insure fair trade between member states and those nations who receive financial assistance from the World Bank. This aim is to prevent nations from exploiting a developing or bankrupt nation to obtain a huge profit at the cost of that nation's economy. Trade sanctions could be utilized which would act more like public condemnations, a lock on financial assistance to sanctioned nations, and potentially a fine or seizure of the nations financial contribution to the WB until such a time the actions stopped and compensation has been issued. I expect my own nation, Mestra, will contribute quite extensively, and we should not be participating for some sort of profit but for the benefit of all, out of charity, kindness, and humility. Very Rich nations who hoard their money are seen as selfish, and if one contemplates actually helping others, their own reputation will increase, and if they work towards globalization they can benefit from the increased connectivity of the world. On a side note, What do you all think about having the World Bank act as a hub for national Central Banks, i.e. allowing a range of connectivity between banks, ease of access and a simpler way of converting money, etc. |
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| Lines | Nov 23 2013, 09:40 AM Post #19 |
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Senior nation
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The issue with using this for influence is that the majority of our states are equally-sized. No one Player state could really achieve a supramajority in the organization--providing the most funding and such and such. Lanlania, Mestra, and Sainam would all easily match one another's 'donations', so it would be difficult for any one to garner particular influence--much less influence enough to pressure or subdue another nation's economy or political systems. Then there's nations like Deltoria, Medo-Kubaniza, Nova Angleterra which would work to counterweight/override another nation's influence. Then, as Fal said, there's some nations that wouldn't join at all because the organization would clearly be a certain group's effort to establish control. That's something I don't think some of you guys understand: Oracia is multi-polar. Not bipolar, or even unipolar. International efforts are more difficult to achieve in a world of "Great Powers" (read: similar to prior to the world wars) than in a world of two opposing ideologies (Cold War) or in a supposed hegemony. None of our nations are really large or influential enough to use a "World Bank" to pursue their agenda--not even Lanlania or Mestra would really be capable of compelling the organization to add restrictions or clauses to loans. In a true World Bank, no one Player nation would really achieve that level of influence--or anywhere close to it. Of course, there is potential for "coalitions"...but that'd just highlight the organization's role as a tool for certain states to achieve soft power over others and...said others would be unlikely to turn to the bank, especially if other organizations (read: a TA-led counterweight, independent nations) spawned and extended better offers. So what'd we have then? One of the following: a) A tool for some powers (let's call them the East Caprecia Axis, because that's the group most likely to achieve dominion over it) to nudge victims to their agenda; b) an organization gridlocked by various coalitions (where Party A would oppose Party B's attempt to use the organization to prop up Nation B, an ally/member of Party B); c) an idealistic organization pure of nationalistic sentiments that helps everyone because it is totes not under the influence of any state (hah?); or d) a small player organization focused on aiding its members and their allies. I think it'd be best to just aim for D, rather than try to force our world to be more like RL--where the West (a bloc) has significant influence over the world. Such a thing doesn't exist in Oracia; we're more or less all balanced and are vying for further influence (that a faux-'World Bank' really wouldn't grant). A "World Bank" would necessitate one bloc being notably stronger/more influential than the others, while an East Caprecian Financial Organization, dominated by Lanlania, Mestra, and Sainam, would allow them greater influence over Syntreal-Zaroca. Or each could go the independent route, as Lanlania is doing, and support/finance states in such a way it would be beneficiary to the supplier. Adehn, Habara, Nehda, Sabine, Zanaro are both places the Commonwealth/Lanlania pumped/pumps funds into, with the intention of drawing them into the organization. Maybe there /should/ be a Bank of the Commonwealth, then. ![]()
It's not my belief that national governments are able to do things from the goodness of their heart. It's a bit unrealistic that they'll throw money at poverty, with no intention of gaining something from it. The immediate gains from supporting poor states are very few, unless said states are also made to concede something--say, manpower, natural resources, some sovereignty--in the process. While the World Bank you proposed here does seem capable of being impartial...why would any states support it? That bank would not give them anything once it stabilized--it even rob them of the opportunity to use finances to bring second/third world states to their sphere. Once this bank has paid off its foundation debts and has a nice pile of money lying around, it'd start /replacing/ sovereign states as a source of finances. That'd be bad for our governments as it'd steal an opportunity to use soft power to have their way with a state. Of course, it might help some states to mature and establish themselves, but not in such a way that the donating governments gain from it--those states could easily fall under a different political system. To prevent that, the donating governments would have to establish control over the bank, and that'd bring us back to the scenarios I outlined in my reply to Hadash: a World Bank is out of place because the various blocs of Oracia would try to bend it to their will so it wouldn't go in anyone's will because the various parties are all balanced and incapable of obtaining the upper hand in such a way that it looks legitimate (run-on sentences, ftw). Which brings me back to my original point...rather than trying to form a World Bank that incorporates multiple parties and works to quell poverty from the goodness of its heart and to the benefit of no donating government, you should try to form such a bank between your friends and allies and use it for a) mutual support, b) consolidating your holds on your spheres of influence and c) solidifying relations. If you want to make the world a better place, that's be a better fit coming from private citizens than a national government. As for a WTO...maybe a free trade area between the larger powers in Syntreal and Zaroca is both doable and beneficiary. |
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| Kingborough | Nov 23 2013, 11:14 PM Post #20 |
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The Monarchist
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I have to agree with Lines. Even our largest regional blocs or other alliances don't have a majority to do anything like manipulate such an org. Also, understand this; Kingborough has made a large chunk of its power, its money, and its influence by buying up assets in trashed nations and them cashing in when things got better. Our government budget gets 15 billion a year from investment corporations and banks the state owns, for example. We'd heartily oppose any world org that would be trying to fix the problems we used to get our power, especially if we can't make a profit off it. |
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| Nentsia | Nov 24 2013, 01:36 AM Post #21 |
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Politically incorrect history student
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I just want to note that Oracia isnt the only multipolar world atm, the real world is one too. The UN, WTO, World Bank - they still haven't collapsed and many nations are still begging to be able to join them. We don't need a dominant power to rule our international organizations, why dont we say let the power struggle begin? I see people here start wars almost every week, so whats the problem with a diplomatic war? I understand that all these RL international orgs were essentially the outcome of WWII, and we never had this drastic incentive to bring 'stability' to the world, but don't think it was easy for the Americans to build up all these organizations. The Communist bloc for example barely participated, and literally mirrored the west with its own World Bank, and its own international organizations. There has never been a moment in international relations that it was beneficial for everyone to spawn humanitarian organizations. The question is, do we, the roleplayers, want a world bank? |
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| Mestra | Nov 24 2013, 01:42 AM Post #22 |
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Regional Power
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Hmm.... Not to sound brash but some of the points brought up make me realize what is exactly wrong with our own real life planet. This is a sad thought of course, but this is RP. As for you King, this organization wouldn't prevent you from doing what you have done in the past though taking advantage of weak people is deplorable at best, (considers exploiting weak people, I jest of course). This organization would only try to insure that your nation and its companies obeyed international law, and acted fairly. i.e. you followed all the laws of the nation and of the international community if your nation or the 'trashed' nation was affected by those laws. I am sure many nations would be more than willing to allow such actions to be taken, so thus while some may not approve there wouldn't be any action taken. As for this utilzation of the Bank to affect others, while the thought is concerning there is nothing to fear. As Lines has said it would be difficult for any group to take over the bank to cause negative affects on another. Ultimately the governance of this organization needs to be divided in a way that would prevent such a thing from occurring in the first place. As for incentives, I always think people who think in the short term for investments are silly and stupid. Long term investments are key to future global success. Yes your nation may give a large sum of money to the bank, and this money will be paid back in time, but the time in which it is paid back will be a very long term time. Don't expect the Bank to pay back your original deposit so quickly, it would likely take decades maybe even a century for some nations. Besides, if your nation was concerned with a profit, why not invest in poorer developing nations. If they receive a loan from the bank they are likely to begin building or attempting to improve their own economy, thus if you invested you would eventually make a profit. Another affect of this bank should be to provide monetary assistance to those nations or say large scale banks or global corporations who face economic and financial problems. If these entities have been RPd in such a way that their collapse would cause global panic and perhaps a recession in certain regions, then the Bank could offer assistance to stabilize these companies. I am reminded of the 2008 financial crisis caused when the US housing market collapsed causing a global recession as banks began to collapse. Ultimately greed will ruin everything, and while this planet does not have the globalization that Earth has, nor do we have a United States like country (not yet anyway.... eyes a few nations), we won't have to worry about global collapse. Our concern will arise now for regional and hemispheres. By that I mean spheres such as the Eastern Caprecia Sphere which consists of Syntreal and Zaroca. These regions are becoming more and more intertwined with each other. We must consider all possibilities. and I would like to finalize what this Organization does, what it is called, what powers it has, etc. Before we begin writing a final Charter establishing it. |
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| Lines | Nov 24 2013, 07:00 AM Post #23 |
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Senior nation
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Real-world wasn't very much on multipolar after WWII and leading to the turn of the century; pretty sure it was mainly USA v. USSR at the time, rather than UK v. France v. Germany v. Russia v. Spain v. Arabians. Now, a lot of those mentioned powers more or less fall into the United States's sphere...at least until the E.U. snags 'em. But, yes, our world is starting to polarize again...China be daring, yo, and the Russians have yet to submit to our boot. Brazil's on its way up, as is India...or so it's said. Until that happens though, we've still a mostly unipolar (USAUSAUSA) or bipolar (+China) world. The USA had the advantage that Europe was busted at the time, hence why it was able to just slide in with its 'international' organizations and distribute aid to people...in exchange for, at least, political concessions--I read on the World Bank's wiki article that the USA 'demanded' they get rid of their commies if they wanted a loan. I'm not sure what the World Bank is doing now, though. "Traditionally, the Bank President has always been a US citizen nominated by the United States, the largest shareholder in the bank," is certainly an interesting quote from the article, however. Whether we want it or not is the question, however. We could really find a way to do anything, given some creativity and cause. We should at least try to keep it reasonably plausible though. From the wiki article, it seems that the World Bank creation's was led by the USA and the UK and was initial used to provide aid to Europe, but went off to romp in South America around 1950. It seemed to grant loans for social constructions, while also rapidly increasing those state's debt. Giving it some thought, I guess an organization to steadily the developing states out of poverty might be good, but it certainly wouldn't be a priority for our countries, nor is likely to reach the same influence as the RL World Bank. Indeed, RL is a terrible place. The majority look after their own interests in the now, rather than try to predict and prepare for the future. Aye, it blows, but such is life and such is humanity. Which organization, pray? I'm not sure where this "policing business" comes from. In any case, this organization won't immediately prevent him from taking advantage, but it certainly would be working to that effect and it definitely could be used to obtrude his efforts...at least if the organization has the funds and reach. If it's just Mestra, I don't think nations in Nysa would be particularly eager to accept its loans...or maybe they would, because you're outside the immediate area and therefore have a more limited ability to threaten 'em. Even then though, they'd much more likely turn to an immediate greater power capable of both protecting them and financing their adventures. It would be difficult for anyone to gain a political advantage, aye, unless the organization was reduced in scope and well within a bloc's pocket. As Nents mentioned earlier, the commies tried their own World Bank, and the likeliest reason the US's came out on top is because it 'won'. As for setting up the organization to prevent dominion...that's a little silly, don't you think? Your country should be trying to put as much power as possible into its owns hand. It should be doing what's best for it first, rather than attempting to brighten the future by aiding all the poor states across the globe. I'm sure those poor states around Mestra would be more than happy to take your money. Yes, eventually. A lot of things happen 'eventually'--I should know. Until then, though, you have this financial black hole making your funds disappear. People want results /now/, and even if leaders recognize the long-term benefits, the majority of the population wouldn't. Although, this whole "it'd take forever to pay you back" isn't really working to your favor; it means the 'benefits' we'd see would be few and far between. The one actually controlling the organization would be the one most likely to gain from its loans first, rather than the whole. That does bring to mind a previous argument, however...why provide foreign aid through this organization, rather than through your own private systems? Your own banks are far easier to control, there's less parties capable of intervening in your brokering, and you can set the terms as you will. You could arrange so both it (gaining money for its activities) and you (gaining access to its resources and market) benefit. We don't need an international organization to provide the aid, when our states could do it just as well and gain benefits from doing so. I don't recall ever seeing someone role play a bank, I'm afraid. The only recessions I've seen have been part of a greater RP, one in which the country is /supposed/ to see economic hardship. But, yes, this bank could theoretically do that. Depending on the victim though, some states (which may be members of the bank) would benefit from the collapse though. Indeed. Mestra and So'Karsa are involved in the ISTA, while Lanlania and Mestra have some things cooking. Not much beyond that though, neh? Regardless, mayhaps you should try a regional effort first, rather than jumping straight to the world. My suggestions: The Bank: - focused on a particular region - can make loans - can attach requirements on those loans - uses said loans to alleviate poverty in developing states and war-torn countries The trade organization: - works towards a FTA in Syntreal-Zaroca |
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| Nentsia | Nov 25 2013, 12:52 AM Post #24 |
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Politically incorrect history student
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@ Lines, I was talking about post-1991. Kissinger predicted the current world situation in 1996, especially the growth of new continental powers at the expense of US influence. He pointed to China, Japan, Brazil, Russia and India. Thats a multipolar world, whether you like it or not. This world has no two blocs anymore. He also predicted that former allies of the US will act more and more independently (Japan, EU) and that the US will be ''verbally attacked'' more and more often by countries in their attempt to escape from US influence. Kissinger does not say who might do that, but I say lets take a look at the whole Pink Tide in South America (Morales, Chavez), Iran, North Korea etc. (or Milosevic when he was still around, Saddam Husein, the Taliban regime - you name it )
Edited by Nentsia, Nov 25 2013, 01:01 AM.
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| Kingborough | Nov 25 2013, 01:06 AM Post #25 |
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The Monarchist
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I would beg to differ. Yes, those powers are growing up but they aren't yet there and Japan is still mostly in the US sphere in any case. It's definitely not as multipolar as Nysa, where pretty much 1/2 of nations are 'great powers' and the rest are quite significant. It's definitely similar to Europe in the Victorian-Edwardian era, where you had UK vs France vs Prussia vs Austria vs Russia vs Ottomans vs Spain vs Italy vs other briefly powerful nations who came and went during the era, with America still just being the bogeyman over the horizon. |
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| Nentsia | Nov 25 2013, 01:35 AM Post #26 |
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Politically incorrect history student
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Yeah that's true :3 |
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| Lomarre | Nov 25 2013, 05:00 AM Post #27 |
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High-Kingdom of Lomarre
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Count Lom in. 8D |
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| Flo | Nov 25 2013, 06:07 AM Post #28 |
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Shrek is Love. Shrek is Life.
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Banks based in regions? *looks at Galdresia* why not arkaus? |
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| Lines | Nov 25 2013, 06:53 AM Post #29 |
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Senior nation
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Yeah, the US is being pushed out. Have new lines been fully established? I don't think so. Is Brazil able to compete with the US? Uuummm...it sounds like a stretch, as does Japan. China, India, and Russia might be able to last out a war with the US, but their influence doesn't really match the US's. So, sure, I recognize that our world /is/ polarizing some again...but I wouldn't say it's there yet. And, like King, I definitely wouldn't say its the same as Oracia. We're not at a stage where we're kicking out the superpower cause the Big Bad is gone...we're at the stage where we're trying to maneuver our countries to rise above the rest--and there are certainly are a lot of rests: Lanlania, Deltoria, Sainam, Mestra, Carpathia, Pacium Union, Sovreignry, Falsea, Cordillera, Medo-Kubaniza. And these are just the biggest powers...there's still a few other nations playing big. ![]() That's honestly what I think is more viable: a bunch of regional banks led by regional powers for the sake of controlling said region and keeping foreign powers from entering. Not a global bank because. |
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| Flo | Nov 25 2013, 06:59 AM Post #30 |
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Shrek is Love. Shrek is Life.
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I don't know about keeping foreign powers out. That ends up being really frustrating for the foreign powers We have more than enough of that already I think.
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