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Grand Syntaran Heights; ATTN: World
Topic Started: Jul 2 2013, 10:14 PM (1,910 Views)
Valus
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The Multicultured Guy
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Viscount Lykos stood up "Your Honors, in the essence of having the full being of our nations agree to these terms, may I ask for a recess for which the non-leader delegates may contact their respective governments to convene and discuss the treaty matters?"
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Sovreignry
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Regularly the only sane man
[ *  *  *  * ]
"Oh goody, you've said all you want, but we don't get to speak?" Foreign Minister Carsten Huff said, "But enough about that, I'm taking offense at Article II Section A. We're no longer allowed to have secrets? We have to share every single discovery we make with the Communists?!"

Huff shuffled some papers around. "I'm inclined to agree with my counterpart from Kingborough here and stating that Sovreignry might not be partaking in this treaty. And, since we can't claim ownership, there is no justifiable reason for us to actually mine anything. It is prohibitively expensive since we can't sell anything."
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Lines
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Senior nation
"As we've stated repeated," President Smith replied, "Article Two Section A does not mandate the blind sharing of discoveries, it merely states that operations conducted in space should serve a peaceful purpose that could benefit all mankind. It does not say you are to distribute papers without a thought. If you'll look at Article Eleven Section B, you'll note it states you decide what extent and 'feasible' and 'practical'.

"Similarly, not owning the rock doesn't mean you can't tap it's resources because you can't sell it. That's a rather silly notion, frankly. You don't own the waters in your exclusive economic zone, but other states still recognize the resources within that territory as yours. A similar system could be afforded for asteroids. As the Hegemon suggested earlier, we could grant an authority the ability to recognize mining rights, perhaps making the requisite an operating mining facility.

"However, one would still not own the asteroid and be able to do with it as they will."

((OOC: Also, at the present, the Ministry has not drafted forms for mining things, and I do not intend to have operational, super-duper effective, and worthwhile mining facilities prop up across the heavens. Manned missions /might/ be a possibility, but staying there is likely not an option.))
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DeSchaine
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Large State
[ *  *  *  * ]
"'States Parties shall facilitate..' Are you blind by choice or just deluded? That phrase right there makes it mandatory for nations to share everything involved." She shook her head. "No... Taeunas will not take part in this socialistic farce. Make it more amenable to a representative and capitalist nation, and maybe we'll consider it." She shoved the packet away from her as a physical point.
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Lines
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Senior nation
President Smith scowled, his brows bushing together in confusion before he shook it all away. "Facilitate," he returned. "To make easier. To assist. To help bring about. Encourage: to inspire, to support, to stimulate, to attempt to persuade. Additionally, you are taking it out of content, and, frankly, failing at even that."

John sighed, lifting his copy ad reading off word by word, "'There shall be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space, including the moons and all other celestial bodies, and States Parties shall facilitate and encourage international cooperation in such investigation.'

"I completely fail to see how this demands anything. This demands absolutely nothing. All this does is proclaim a freedom to conduct research in outer space and it's bodies and promote international cooperation. Promote, my fair lady. The terms 'facilitate' and 'encourage' are far from binding; they do not actively mandate action."

"Regardless," the Hegemon interjected within moments. "Perhaps the other representatives would like to voice their opinions?"
Edited by Lines, Jul 6 2013, 10:54 AM.
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Zanaro
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Triarchic Republic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Commander General Arcturus stood up to speak.

"Delegates, leaders, representatives, and hosts. I must say I support the ideals of this treaty, but upon hearing from many of you I also hear your issues and plights with it. It appears many of you are fearful of an organization that will be created that will take away your freedoms that we all seek to have in the heavens. I also understand your fear of sharing information with enemies and potential enemies. Perhaps it is the wording. As many of you have been speaking I've been taking notes and writing revisions to the treaty and here is what I have come up with." He held held out a newly printed and edited version of the treaty. "It is my suggestion that all parties here go ahead and write in their edits to it, by doing so we stop complaining and start working towards a treaty we can all agree to."

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Lomarre
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High-Kingdom of Lomarre
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
"Not gonna happen, friend. We don't support documents that are poorly worded and assist enemies. Lomarre refuses to sign,"
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Lines
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Senior nation
"Oh, for the love of Hadar," Chairman Meow grumbled as he reached his feet. "It is obvious you are all not yet ready for any sort of mutual assistance and cooperation." The man was scowling, as he typed a few keys on the laptop. The screen was taken over by a single document again, visible in full. As Chairman Meow rose to his full height, his left hand rose to stroke his prestigious, chest-length Fu Manchu mustache. "Here." He glared at the array of representatives, failing to spare his colleagues.

Treaty Text
Edited by Lines, Jul 6 2013, 01:21 PM.
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Zanaro
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Triarchic Republic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Commander General Arcturus looked over the re-written treaty. In all regards it was a much better version, and it truly was just a treaty without forming any new organization. In all regards it would be acceptable to the Republic, and hopefully to the other delegates.

"So'Karsa will sign this new treaty, it holds to the ideals I feel we all seek to uphold in space. I hope the rest of you will join me in signing this new version of the treaty." when it was time to sign Arcturus would want to be one of the first. this was a historical opportunity for all the nations involved.
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DeSchaine
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Large State
[ *  *  *  * ]
Etain smiled slowly at the Chairman. "No, I think not. This does not address many of the other issues. However..." She turned and looked at the gentleman from So'Karsa. "Congradulations, General. You've managed a document that shows me there may be hope for this venture after all. We still do not agree with Article three in its totality, nor section 3 of Article five. Perhaps an exception for asteroids. There needs to be a clause in Article six dealing with nations at war, something about treating them as diplomats rather than a typical prisoner of war, unless they were taken as a result of hostile action." She sat back and steepled her fingers. "We would be willing to work more on that version, if it is amenable to the rest of the delegates."
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Sovreignry
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Regularly the only sane man
[ *  *  *  * ]
"The word 'shall' is a binding term. And one your government is foisting upon us."
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Lines
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Senior nation
"The man changed a few word," Friedon Weed chuckled, "and you hail him as a hero?" The President of Assuria raises his eye brows, setting aside the original version, the So'Karsan version. He'd just finished reading the old man's version as well. "I've a few issues, however.

"Firstly, what does 'aid in facilitation' mean, exactly? The third version reduced the ISA to a simple record keeping organization, while the So'Karsan submission expands it's role into apparent interference in operations to... 'ensure compliance with this treaty'. That brings back the question the Kingboroughian asked earlier: 'how will we enforce this?' Will the I.S.A. obtrude the operation?"

Friedon glanced back to the So'Karsan version, glancing at another area he'd circled. "Another issue with his version is that brought back the usage of 'mankind' in Article Two Section One. As the Sylvarians and, again, the Kingboroughian, brought forward: this is unacceptable.

"The usage of the word 'may' in Article Two Section Three, quite frankly, renders it ineffective and pointless. We already may do a lot of things. Might be best to simple scratch that entire sentence out and leave it as 'There shall be freedom of scientific investigation in outer space, including the moons and all other celestial bodies'.

"Furthermore, the modifications to Article Three are quite redundant. Article Nine Section Two clarifies that ownership of objects constructed on celestial bodies does not change simply because it is in outer space, while Section One ordains that jurisdiction and ownership shall belong to the object's State of registry. It's rather awkward working and could use clarification, though I believe it serves our purposes.

"Additionally, I believe diplomats are allowed to leave upon declaration of war. This, coupled with their status as 'envoys', already ensures they are treated as diplomats--returned safely and promptly. I do agree with the President, however, that the astronauts should be detained--or, as you addressed it: taken--if they are armed or otherwise committed 'hostile action'."
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Zanaro
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Triarchic Republic
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
"Mr. President you do bring up some good points about my version,which I will concede is not as well written as I would have liked, mostly because I did indeed 'changed a few word' as you said. I will also concede that I prefer the third version because it does reduce the ISA to being a simple record keeping agency,instead of a controlling agency as my own version would have done. Perhaps it would be best for me to list out what So'Karsa would seek, as well as what i believe it is the other delegates are seeking from this treaty." Arcturus looked to his computer and sent his list to the other delegates.

Quote:
 
  • Ideas for The Treaty
  • WMD Space Ban, this would include, Megaton weapons, Kinetic Weapons, Orbital Weapons, and others as needs to be determined.
  • A Multinational Institution dedicated to recording locations of celestial bodies for safer space travel. (By Multinational I mean each signing nation gets at least ONE scientific Representative.)
  • Ship, Facility, and Colony Sovereignty.
  • Protection of Astronauts, so long as they are NOT enemy combatants.
  • Mutual Aid in the cases of an emergency.
  • Sharing of celestial dangers to Oracia, or to Colonies, ships, and Facilities. (Would be sent to the Multinational Institution.)
  • Amendable
  • Voluntary
Edited by Zanaro, Jul 6 2013, 03:47 PM.
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DeSchaine
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Large State
[ *  *  *  * ]
"Taeunas agrees with those save for one. We are fine with a ban on space based WMD's, but others should be allowed. It's too difficult to play catch up if someone who either is not a member of the group, or just plain breaks the treaty, manages to get an orbital based system up and running."
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Svunbrink
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Large State
[ *  *  *  * ]
The Belgën delegate Janä Grae just got off the phone with her Empress who was telling her of the documents terms and conditions and the situation. She was speaking on the phone to her Empress, she then passed on her Empress’ answer in her native Belgën and had it translated:

"Meine Regierung ist der Ansicht, dass die dritte Version ist die beste Version, um sicherzustellen, dass unsere Interessen. Artikel zu tun mit Co-operation, und das Verbot von allen unerwünschten orbital weapons systems wahrgenommen wird von Ihrer Majestät so wichtig für die Erhaltung der internationalen Ordnung, und so werden wir nicht wahrnehmen der hegemonialen Eigentum oder rechte der Exploration und Nutzung des Weltraums und die Ressourcen, die sich innerhalb des genannten Platz, monopolisiert werden durch ein oder einige wenige Staaten, dies umfasst sowohl wissenschaftliche und forschende einrichtungen und grundlagen.

Also Himmelskörpern und den Inhalt der genannten Himmelskörper sollten nicht unter das Eigentum an allen genannten nation state, aber im öffentlichen Eigentum der ISA für die Durchführung weiterer Studien, Artikel wie Artikel sechs Was bedeutet Ratifizierungsurkunden hinterlegt werden durch und durch die Noberian Föderation und der Andresian Liga keine Rolle für uns, da wir sind ein neutraler Staat.

Artikel sieben lässt Raum für Änderungen vorgeschlagen werden und korrigiert werden können, wenn alle Staaten denke, es ist notwendig mit der Mehrheit aller Unterzeichnerstaaten. Sowie acht Artikel, die Platz für einen Staat zu entziehen, sie geben schriftliche Dokumentation an den Verwahrer Regierungen, die er ab dem folgenden Jahr.

Meine Regierung sieht nichts falsch mit dem Rest der Vertrag, wie wir haben keine Ziele, unsere nationalen Interessen in den Raum, und auch nicht daran glauben es ist ein Recht für jeden Staat zu monopolisieren oder anderen Staaten Zugang zum Weltraum auf der Basis von politischen, wirtschaftlichen und nationalen Interessen eines oder mehrerer Staaten. Also ich habe den Auftrag von meinem Kaiserin zu melden wenn es sein muss."

(OOC: Translation)

“My government believes that the third version is the best version to ensure our interests. Articles to do with co-operation, and banning of any undesirable orbital weapons systems is perceived by her majesty to be vital to the preservation to the international order, and thus we will not perceive the hegemonic ownership or rights of the exploration and exploitation of space and the resources that reside within said space to be monopolised by one or few nation states, this includes scientific and exploratory facilities and bases.

Thus celestial bodies and the contents of said celestial bodies should not be under the ownership of any said nation state, but the public ownership of the ISA to conduct further study, articles such as article six which implies ratification instruments be deposited through and carried out through the Noberian Federation and the Andresian League are of no consequence to us as we are a neutral state.

Article seven leaves room for amendments to be proposed and corrected if any state or states think it is needed through a majority vote of all signatory states. As well as article eight which gives room for any state to withdraw providing they give written documentation to the depositary governments, which will take effect the following year.

My government sees nothing wrong with the rest of the treaty as we do not have any goals to further our national interest into space, nor do we believe it is any right for any one state to monopolise or dictate other states access to space on the basis of political, economic and overall national interests of one or more states. Thus I have the mandate from my Empress to sign if need be.”
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