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Australia: a land of contradictions?
Topic Started: May 2 2006, 04:08:10 PM (292 Views)
Bridiej
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Chattermonster Extraordinaire!

It seems to me confusing the way things are communicated.

For instance, there are regular adverts on TV encouraging people to take up citizenship, saying that Australia welcomes you. Yet on the other hand we hear rumours about so called "culture" tests where we will be asked all sorts of daft questions in a bid to prove we deserve the right to have our citizenship.

Ditto the skills shortage, it was announced yesterday they will keep the upped limit of skilled visas as there are still shortages, yet they make people jump through so many hoops to get licences, certificates and god knows what so they can work in their chosen trade. I'm sure a lot of people give up and end up working in another area just due to the sheer frustration of it all.

I dont know, maybe I'm talking b****ks but it just seems a tad confusing..... :ph43r:
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ABCDiamond
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The confusion over the skilled trades, has indeed been very confusing, and undoubtably still is to many people.

However, I think I worked it out..... I've known many tradespeople who have come over, and found work in these areas without the same difficulties that the British have... And it has confused me for ages.

If a skilled trademan comes over and works for an employer, it is pretty easy to be qualified for a job working for an employer, and that is what happens with many migrants.

However, many British Migrants want to continue doing what they did in the UK, and that includes being self employed. Now that is a VERY different matter here, and is the beginning of lots of new paperwork, tests, etc etc etc... and the time span involved to get the required "self employed status" licence can be daunting.

We have to remember, that out of the 38,000 skilled migrants that arrived in 2003, only about 8,000 were British, and just about 20,000 were from Asian countries.

Many of these Asians will be happy to work for an employee, on basic wages, and consider the system works well for them. The British however, being used to a very different system, will find it much more difficult and contradictory.


The Citizenship question, also is confusing at face value. My take on that is that I feel there are many people here, that are fully qualified to become citizens, (many of whom are British), that just haven't bothered to get around to it, and they will be the ones targeted in the original adverts. (that reminds me, I should try to fill in that citizenship application).

This new proposal should not apply to those, who may have been here for years, some for about 20 years :D and should know the country by now ;)

I feel that the thinking is an attempt to try to get the newer migrants to "fit in" to the country that they have chosen to call home.

That's my thinking on the two points ;)
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moneypen20
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Bond's Beaut Bombshell

I think you're probably right on both counts but especially the "trades" part. I must be very depressing if you have come from the UK with 15+ years of skills and probably running your own business to have to start at the bottom again. Unfortunately you cannot have one rule for one and one for another so the British tradesman feels let down whilst those who just want to start at the bottom with little or no skills at the moment have no problem.

If the citizenship tests come in, I assume that anyone who had to pass the English test (don't know what it's called) in order to get their visa, would not have to do it again? And anyone who is British or from an English speaking nation would also be exempt. Otherwise the government would be making stacks more work for themselves and they wouldn't do that, would they :rolleyes: :D
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Bridiej
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The citizenship test they are talkng about is not just English, they apparently want a UK style test asking about "life" in Australia, but some of the suggested questions are crazy.

As for trades, I'm not saying people shouldnt start from the bottom, but in our quest to try and get Malc's qualifications recognised so he can work as a spark I've spoken to quite a few electricians both in WA and SA who have had terrible problems and long waits to get their licences. For a start, I think it's crazy that the TRA you get is for emigration only - why on earth doesnt it count so you can get registered as soon as you arrive rather than having to wait weeks or, in some cases, months? :wacko:

And for people trying to start from the bottom it's not easy either, try finding an electrician round here who'll take malc on as a trade assistant (bearing in mind he is a fully qualified electrician!) - like infiltrating the masons! <_<
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ABCDiamond
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This Citizenship test proposal is already creating tension.

I read the following: The chairwoman of the Federation of Ethnic Communities Councils, Voula Messineri, says it is not reasonable to expect new arrivals to know Australian values. "It's unfair and also totally unrealistic- the reality is that people don't leave their sense of who they are at the aeroplane gate or the ship gate," she said."

In my view, this seems inflammatory, as the comment is fully correct, but the problem being, it has nothing to do with the proposal.
People are not expected to take citizenship as soon as they leave the airport, they have two/three years to settle in first, before they can even apply.

That comment from the Ethnic Communities Council is creating immediate tension for ethnic migrants, who may believe their council saying that they need that knowledge as soon as they arrive here. :unsure:

If people choose not to know anything about this country, it only means they may not be able to get Citizenship, it doesn't stop them staying as Permanent Residents, like me :D

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ABCDiamond
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With the problems with the Trades, elecricians etc., I think it should be made very clear, early in the TRA process, that the TRA only allows people to work under the conditions that actually apply.

I assume that the TRA just assesses the basic skill, to compare to an Australian in the same position.

What I think would be good, especially for the British, would be a seperate test, done in the UK whilst waiting, on the applicable Australian regulations for that industry, therefore enabling then to begin work sooner.

It can be compared a bit to getting Australian experience, which many people, in many industries experience, as they often have to start at a lower income, getting the local knowledge, before beginning to rise to their previous position again.

I don't know anything about what the TRA actually does, but have assumed that it verifies a person has passed apprenticeship level or similar, so that they are considered to know what they are doing. ?

Obviously some people passing the TRA will be much more experienced than others, but do they end up being classed equally when they arrive, in which case the Australian regulatory bodies need to verify at what level each person actually is, or they all start equally at the bottom ?

This gets back to my idea of a different testing system in the UK.

I reckon someone put this in the too hard basket...
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Bridiej
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I think that's part of the problem, you send off for your TRA (with a nice little cheque, thank you very much says Mr Howard) and then find you need to go through it all again.

I dont know, maybe the TRA has separate departments that look at assessments for immigration and assessments for licences BUT what I dont understand is how you can be qualified enough to get a visa yet have to prove again that you are qualified enough for a licence (which then some people cant do) <_<

I think you're right about the "too hard basket" :lol:

I also think "money making exercise" sums it up quite nicely as well! :rolleyes:
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Bridiej
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ABCDiamond
3rd May, 2006 - 10:08am


If people choose not to know anything about this country, it only means they may not be able to get Citizenship, it doesn't stop them staying as Permanent Residents, like me :D

It just depends on what sort of questions they ask, I know on Today Tonight or 60 minutes (yes, I know "The Sun" and "The Mirror" of current affairs!) they said it would be questions like "What's Shane Warne's favourite food?" :wacko:

And if they start asking questions about things like the AFL then we wont stand a chance. :lol:
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ABCDiamond
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The day I believe ANYTHING that "TodayTonight" says is the day that I ... (well, you get my meaning) :D


Talking about them, they had an article the other day, that actually agreed with my opinion on something. I immediately did a bit more research to find out where I must have gone wrong !!

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Bridiej
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ABCDiamond
3rd May, 2006 - 10:57am


Talking about them, they had an article the other day, that actually agreed with my opinion on something. I immediately did a bit more research to find out where I must have gone wrong !!

:o :lol:
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